New Tones On NYPD Frequencies

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Danny37

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I noticed there a new tone after the carrier drops from the mdc1200 on certain NYPD frequencies. Im hearing it over the 25/28/32 and the Midtown/17 frequencies. However its not the repeater thats for sure, its seems to be a handful of radios. Are these tones from the apx radios?
 

62Truck

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I noticed there a new tone after the carrier drops from the mdc1200 on certain NYPD frequencies. Im hearing it over the 25/28/32 and the Midtown/17 frequencies. However its not the repeater thats for sure, its seems to be a handful of radios. Are these tones from the apx radios?

Is it like a beep boop tone?
 

Danny37

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It's a single tone or beep it's right after mdc drop and it's only on certain radios as I hear it all the time for a certain unit but not another. I don't think it's the voter. I'm going to see if I can get an audio clip of it.
 

coolrich55

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It's a single tone or beep it's right after mdc drop and it's only on certain radios as I hear it all the time for a certain unit but not another. I don't think it's the voter. I'm going to see if I can get an audio clip of it.

I know exactly what you're talking about. I first noticed it a couple months ago on the midtown freq. I don't have an answer to what it is though.
 

Danny37

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I know exactly what you're talking about. I first noticed it a couple months ago on the midtown freq. I don't have an answer to what it is though.

Haven't had the time to record the audio file but if you listen to the midtown or Harlem Stream you most definitely will hear it. Glad I'm not the only one hearing it. It's def a secondary roger tone right after the mdc drops. I'm assuming they must be new radios, maybe the apx?
 

4-crime

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The slightly different sound you are hearing is the MDC1200 ID being transmitted from new Vertex VX-P824 radios recently issued to the 14-17-18 precincts and most recently the 25-28 Pct's, for now. All precincts will get them eventually. The reason it sounds slightly different than most other radios is the way the MDC1200 settings are set up by default in the CE76 CPS.
 
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Danny37

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Any particular reason why a digital radio? Do they plan on going p25 in the future?
 

GTR8000

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Most public safety radios these days are capable of some sort of digital modulation. Whether or not the digital capability is activated is a different matter (you can purchase an APX with an analog-only flashcode, with the ability to "unlock" P25 in the future).

Some manufacturers no longer even offer public safety models that lack digital capability. Motorola, for example, offers the XPR series as the replacement for the HT/CDM (Waris) series.

Another big factor is that both NYS and Federal grants for public safety radios require that they be capable of P25 modulation. No P25 = no grant money.

It's also important to keep in mind that just because you see a "digital" radio, it doesn't mean that the agency is planning to migrate to digital. That means any brand/flavor, e.g. Motorola APX for P25, Motorola XPR for DMR/TRBO, Kenwood for NXDN, etc.

I'm familiar with a fire dept that recently purchased some very fancy looking APX 8000 portables that feature an analog-only flashcode with only the UHF R2 band provisioned. A casual observer might assume that they're digital, trunked, 700 MHz, etc. when in fact they have a whopping 16 analog fireground channels programmed in the radios. :wink:
 

Danny37

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What's funny is that they're literally throwing down hundreds of dollars away for having digital radios while an analog radio costs a fraction of the price of a digital radio. You can say you can get 2-4 analog radios for the price of one digital radio. An apx 8000 a radio that costs as much as a used car for 16 channels on analog, now that's just mindful thinking haha.
 

GTR8000

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Well, yes and no. An APX 8000 doesn't cost $10,000 if you don't provision every feature it's capable of. Yes, it's still an expensive radio even in a bare bones configuration, but in some cases it's worth that expense. This FD, for example, only needs them to do UHF analog currently, but will be migrating to 700 MHz Phase II in the future. When that time comes, they simply purchase the upgraded flashcode (which comes on a USB stick), and they unlock those features within a few minutes.

Agencies are also getting a lot of these radios through grants, which means they're not paying for them directly out of pocket. Yes, the expense of those grants trickles down to every taxpayer eventually, but it's not such a direct blow to a single municipalities annual budget.

No, these radios aren't cheap, but saying that it's "throwing money away" is a bit extreme. I'd much rather pay for a rock-solid APX that is going to last at least a decade, can be upgraded on-the-fly to basically operate on any band in analog or digital, conventional or trunked. The extra expense is often worth it for the peace of mind you get knowing you have a true public safety grade piece of equipment, vs some hambone grade POS.
 

Danny37

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Well the migration definitely makes sense to purchase such a radio. But when transit police got the apx7000 because they were on vhf and needed to rely on the dispatcher to relay info to the UHF side of things. Only for a few years later for transit to migrate over to UHF so everyone is on the same band. Just seeing a $3K vs a $500 radio for features that aren't really needed seems overkill in NYC specifically. I'm aware they aren't paying retail prices etc but man filing for taxes this year was brutal haha.
 

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Once again, since you don't seem to understand what was said.

1) Motorola no longer sells analog only radios. Maybe some of the other companies do, but it doesn't matter because...
2) If an agency wants federal money for new radios (and they all do), then the key to a successful grant application is using "interoperability" and "P25".

Buying off of an existing contract, which all agencies can do in some form, usually results in significant cost savings over putting out an RFP for new equipment. So, if NYPD wants new radios and Boston PD got a good contract, NYPD should be able to buy at the contract price that Boston got.

I forget the details, but there is an interstate compact that allows this.

Well the migration definitely makes sense to purchase such a radio. But when transit police got the apx7000 because they were on vhf and needed to rely on the dispatcher to relay info to the UHF side of things. Only for a few years later for transit to migrate over to UHF so everyone is on the same band. Just seeing a $3K vs a $500 radio for features that aren't really needed seems overkill in NYC specifically. I'm aware they aren't paying retail prices etc but man filing for taxes this year was brutal haha.
 

Danny37

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Once again, since you don't seem to understand what was said.

1) Motorola no longer sells analog only radios. Maybe some of the other companies do, but it doesn't matter because...
2) If an agency wants federal money for new radios (and they all do), then the key to a successful grant application is using "interoperability" and "P25".

Buying off of an existing contract, which all agencies can do in some form, usually results in significant cost savings over putting out an RFP for new equipment. So, if NYPD wants new radios and Boston PD got a good contract, NYPD should be able to buy at the contract price that Boston got.

I forget the details, but there is an interstate compact that allows this.

Yea I understand what was said, I thought vertex was the primary dealer. But yea NYC loves those fed/state grants so it makes sense.
 

crazyboy

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Yea I understand what was said, I thought vertex was the primary dealer. But yea NYC loves those fed/state grants so it makes sense.



I believe they switched to Motorola, but Vertex is owned by Motorola anyway.
 

4-crime

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The reason for using P25 capable radios is the fact that the NYPD has several frequencies now that are P25 digital encrypted only.
 

4-crime

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Nope. IAB is using APX6000's. There are a few other frequencies that are P25 encrypted.
 

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Waste of money with the T Bamd give back in 2023

They will be forced off the UHF T Band
 

GTR8000

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Waste of money with the T Bamd give back in 2023

They will be forced off the UHF T Band

My original reply to you still stands after you made the same comment in January:

Putting aside the notion that NYC's attitude towards the giveback is basically "Come at me, bro"...

The start of the long T-Band recovery and auction process is not set to begin until February 2021, which is a full four years away. That's only the first step of the process, with the actual deadline for clearing public safety from the band is not until early 2023.

So here we are in January of 2017, a full four to six years before the giveback will actually have any real effect on users...and what exactly do you want the NYPD or any other T-Band user to do until that time if they need new equipment? Duct tape and bubble gum to fix radios that are probably already a few years old and falling apart under the constant use and abuse they receive in the city? :roll:
 
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