New VHF P25 Trunked frequency??

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AK4FD

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I wanted to see if anyone has ran into this situation. I am not sure if I have found a new channel during a Service Search, but I can't seem to identify who it belongs to, and there's nothing in a database search that I can find. The frequency is 155.715 and has an NAC of 079, tt appears to be a VHF P25 trunked system but unfortunately I am not hearing any Control Channel noise so I can't run UniTrunker on it to find out. The channel appears to be a voice channel within a larger VHF P25 system because the transmissions don't come across that often, but I can confirm it's some sort of Fire Dept channel because units go enroute and arrival to Fire Alarms and such.

The only thing that I definitively know is that when transmissions come across my search displays an NAC 079 and the Talkgroup ID is 1 as well as the Radio ID... I am on the border of Lincoln & Catawba Counties, I would say between 150-200 miles from the Virginia line, but I cannot find any information in all my searching on this frequency! It comes in crystal clear to where I am in Lincoln County, the NAC decoded as 079. Someone messaged me saying it might be Watauga County, Rowan EMS, or Boone Fire dispatch, however all those channels have either a PL or DPL, suggesting an Analog channel. What I heard definitely shows an NAC of 079, which means it's a P25 Digital channel. So that is my dilemma... I will attach photos below of what my scanner screen looks like when the channel pops up. Maybe one of you knows something? Thanks!

••David
 

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AK4FD

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Just a few minutes ago some more transmissions came over the frequency. This time the first one said "Engine-3 is arrival on Highway-105, nothing showing" and the Radio ID was 7045. Another one a little bit later came over and that one was "Engine-1 arrival" and that Radio ID was 7024. Upon searching Google Maps for Hwy-105 it does appear there's a possibility it's Boone Fire Dept in Watauga County. They are in the database of using the same frequency however it Analog & lists a DPL of 043, and as you can see from my photos the NAC is clearly 079 & Digital, not a DPL, so either the database is wrong or they maybe switched to a new channel or something. The other weird thing is I am many many miles from Boone, 85 miles to be exact, and several Counties away, so I'm really out of their area especially for a Digital P25 channel... I guess the simplest solution would be to say that it must be Boone Fire Dept and the channels are wrong or have changed. I was just kinda wondering if anyone else knew about this channel. It also could be Banner Elk and some other small towns because Highway-105 runs from Boone down to Linville.
 

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W8RMH

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It is not unusual to see an agency change to digital without modifying/upgrading their license.

The RR DB is updated by submissions from members or from the FCC DB, but since they are operating illegally there won't be anything in the FCC DB.
 

AK4FD

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But that doesn't make sense to me, why would a Fire Dept like Boone, which is a governmental agency, not comply with FCC standards, they can get in big trouble for that it's not worth the risk
 

ecps92

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Would not be the first time a vendor dropped the ball.
Most Agencies now have a PVT company who handles Licensing/Freq Coordination
But that doesn't make sense to me, why would a Fire Dept like Boone, which is a governmental agency, not comply with FCC standards, they can get in big trouble for that it's not worth the risk
 

trumpetman

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I'm told the emissions update was put in over a year ago and the licensing company dropped the ball. Give it a little time and I'm sure you will see the license updated accordingly.
 

AK4FD

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I'm in Boone and can't find a control channel. Is it simplex P25?

My scanner is going from 150 to 160 without stopping.
Well it's hard to say, I only hear once-in-a-while transmissions. The strange thing is I hear Engines & Ladders coming up to calls and going arrival, but there's no dispatch alerts on the channel from what I can hear. So it's either a voice channel in a Trunked system and there's a control channel somewhere out there in the wild OR its a single Conventional channel and there's another single channel out there that they are dispatched on or something. I am about 75 miles or so from Boone so I'm surprised I even get anything let alone it being crystal clear... If indeed the channel really is Boone's...
 

GamecockSJ

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Boone appears to be dispatching fire in analog on what is identified in RRDB as Boone Public Works. I caught the tail end of the transmission and didn't have time to see if it was also on P25. I added the Boone fire freq as both conventional and simplex P25 to see what happens.

Boone PD is still analog.

Because of elevation the Rich Mountain/Howard Knob sites really get out. You can sit at Howard Knob and listen to things from Charlotte.
 

KK6ZTE

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But that doesn't make sense to me, why would a Fire Dept like Boone, which is a governmental agency, not comply with FCC standards, they can get in big trouble for that it's not worth the risk
Happens all the time. A lot of government agencies think they're above the rules.

My county has a decent number of unlicensed fire repeaters
 

GamecockSJ

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Just got Boone fire on P25 simplex. Not sure why I was hearing them earlier on the PWorks channel. What I just heard was P25 only on the Boone fire freq, not simulcast.
 

Quantar22

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I'm told the emissions update was put in over a year ago and the licensing company dropped the ball. Give it a little time and I'm sure you will see the license updated accordingly.
Seems as if this has already been covered above guys see the above post by a DB admin.
 

drayd48

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licensing

My local departments FCC license expired in 2014. Even after that, they used to set off DTMF to set off station tones and the dispatch center still says their license when calls are dispatched. They still use the frequency today without a license with 2 tone to alert stations, even though it expired over 3 years ago.
 

ecps92

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Based on the Analog License, it is Conventional, so there would be no Control Channel.
P25 doesn't mean it is trunked.
I'm in Boone and can't find a control channel. Is it simplex P25?

My scanner is going from 150 to 160 without stopping.
 

AK4FD

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Well another transmission came thru again just now and it said "Tanker-1 doing a radio check on Fire Tac 1", and when he did that my scanner displayed a Talkgroup ID: 1, Radio ID: 7045, so since it's displaying a Talkgroup ID it has to be a Trunked system, correct? And since he said Fire Tac 1 and I don't hear any dispatches going over that channel it's probably safe to assume there's another Talkgroup out there that is a main Dispatch channel. The whole thing is confusing trying to figure this out because the transmissions don't come across that often but when they do it's crystal clear...

••David
 

AK4FD

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I'm told the emissions update was put in over a year ago and the licensing company dropped the ball. Give it a little time and I'm sure you will see the license updated accordingly.
Can you verify if the updated license shows it being a Conventional or Trunked system? See my above post for an explanation. Thanks for your help in trying to find this out!

••David
 

trumpetman

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This is a SINGLE CONVENTIONAL channel for Boone Fire used for fire operations, not dispatch.
There is NO trunking system.
P25 channels carry talkgroup data by default however 99% of the time in conventional mode it is irrelevant. Depending on the programming software the default is either 1, 2, or 4095. Radios also default to receiving any talkgroup unless you tell it to mute otherwise.

As mentioned above, the licensing company did not properly file for an updated emission. That's all there is to it.
 

AK4FD

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Some of us don't know the intricacies of Radio dynamics, and I for one am new to this area so I'm not used to seeing things like this occur, all the systems I was at are all Trunked, seeing the Talkgroup ID flash on my screen threw me off a bit. Thank you for your explanation!
 
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