New Washington State Patrol Radio System Information
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When will the move over start? and When will they be on the new system full time? And, is it certain all talkgroups will be encrypted? Maybe it's just me, I understand they're saving money; which is great. HOWEVER, I could have been certain they'd have gone with a P25 conv. system until Washington has the money to built out a statewide system.
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jrw14493
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Moneyrolla sells systems that a competitor could do a pretty damn good copying for almost half the cost. I see it time and time again.
Look at this system: Motorola's trunking platform only allows Motorola branded "subscriber units". While Kenwood and other manufacturers may submit a bid, because their products don't work on a system based on Motorola, it's a very convenient way for Motorola to charge as much as they want for a system of this nature because nothing else will work on it. It's also a convenient way around state bidding laws.
Moneyrolla swoops in and sells big expensive systems that don't work all the time and then charges double compared to a similar system offered by a competitor. Not saying that this one won't/doesn't work, just saying don't hold your breath on this working. Don't hold your breath that this will all be implemented without a hitch(es) and a few million $$ over budget.
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I have deleted several off topic comments. If you want to debate the scanner feed/encryption issue, please do it in the proper place. There is even a dedicated thread for it:
http://forums.radioreference.com/ra...ive-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html
http://forums.radioreference.com/ra...ive-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html
Time and time again I see poor performing Kenwood systems being put in, because they are half the cost. You know what they say, you get what you pay for. I assume you speak from system design/engineering and installation experience ? Because I am .
To prove you wrong on your "fact" that Motorola Smartnet is locked down to just Motorola radios, have a look at the EF Johnson 5100 ES series radios. Oh look, they are Smartnet compatible. I know you won't take my word, so here's the URL....
EFJohnson Technologies | 5100 ES Series
Your claim is for Smartnet analog trunking. The topic of the thread was for a P25 system , which...hold on to your knickers here....is an open format. Huh, imagine that.
Motorola sells expensive systems that are pretty darn good. I know you will argue with me on this, so why not go do your own research. It's easy to do.
Is there a perfect system ? Nope. All systems have issues. Some are out of the hands of the radio manufacture. Some are due to customer's high ego and limited RF knowledge. Some are due to a limited budget, and some are due to scanner operators trying to be RF engineers. Sometimes budgets run over. Perhaps a tower was to be re-used only to find out later it fails a load study ? A landlord changes their mind on rent and makes it necessary to move a site ? A microwave path becomes blocked for whatever reason ? Copper theft ? Mother nature ?
Get this...some poor systems are due to....the vendor either not caring or not knowing what they are doing. I am amazed by the Kenwood/EF Johnson/Harris techs who have never heard of duplex desense. Or the term "selectivity" or even about filtering. Many cases of dissimilar metal based RF jumpers being used in duplex environments, poor grounding, RF adapters out the ying yang, wrong sized coax/hardline leading to loss issues, audio levels totally out in left field, improperly tuned duplexers, poor weather sealing of antenna installations, unacceptable antenna/tower work, overworking the 50 watt intermittent duty PA and having a Wal Mart desk fan zip tied to the heat sink...I could go on and on. Yea, some nice vendors out there.
There are lots of reasons why radio projects become over budget. However, I am suspicious, if you were a real radio tech for a reputable shop, you'd know all this by now...hrmm. There are lots of things happening behind the scenes that scanner listeners don't know about.
I personally maintain 9 counties of public safety systems. I can tell you, 95% of my failures are due to non Motorola equipment. UPS's, GPS, microwave, lightning, water, theft...etc. Very rare that I have a Centracom/MCC5500 failure (non HDD), or a Quantar/MTR2000 failure. Even the holy JPS voters have had a higher failure rate then the workhorse Spectra TAC.
I wouldn't have typed that last paragraph if I couldn't back that up. But my employer would be quite mad if I scanned in my work tickets into PDF and shared them all over the net.
jrw14493
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Matt, do you know anything about WASHINGTON state's IWN system? Do you know what kind of trunking it is? (I, II, IIi, Smartnet, P25 variations etc....) (I don't think I'd trust anything on this site's IWN page as almost all of the tower numbers are labeled improperly anyway.)
Versions of Motorola's trunking is just as sole-source as Kenwood's Nexedge Trunking. While Nexedge and P25 are not sole source, the way that Nexedge trunks is; just like the way Motorola trunks is sole source.
But then again, I'm wrong and everybody else is right.
Versions of Motorola's trunking is just as sole-source as Kenwood's Nexedge Trunking. While Nexedge and P25 are not sole source, the way that Nexedge trunks is; just like the way Motorola trunks is sole source.
But then again, I'm wrong and everybody else is right.
Jrw:
Nope I don't, and from the sounds of you you don't either.
You said you were talking to "one of the troops". My experience is that the officers don't have good detail of new systems. They are just told they are getting one, and maybe a few minor details. Most officers don't have interest in radio and it's only a mere tool for their job and could care less how it works. Without caring, they don't absorb the details and focus on it being a tool.
Nexedge and P25 are not really in the same class. Hard to really compare. Commercial vs public safety protocols. Nexedge and Trbo make great commercial systems, and some will argue they make great public safety systems. They dont. Will they in the future ? I don't know.
"just like the way Motorola trunks is sole source". Really ? A Motorola P25 trunked system is closed to other vendors ? Hrmm. Oh you mean Smartnet...that is no longer sold (see EF Johnson URL as listed before). Yes Motorola is totally evil for making a very reliable, redundant, proven trunking format that ended up becoming the backbone of P25 trunking and stolen by other companies . *insert eye roll here*
Lets back up in time here. Back before we had the "interoperability" bandwagon, P25, etc.... Smartnet licensing was locked down to Motorola, EDACS was locked down to GE/Ericsson..etc. Back then, it was ok to do that. However, in today's public safety world, that's not the case. In fact, I invite Kenwood's on my systems. It actually helps our sales
Since you seem to anti Motorola, why isn't Kenwood installing large systems ? Analog , digital, simulcast...etc ? Not much going on here. Just tons of TKR850's on a farmer's silo. Kenwood makes ZERO phase stable simulcast equipment. Tait's simulcast relies on the daily "reboot" to get everything back in line.
Harris is a good company. My dealership sells Harris equipment (non radio). It's good stuff. If the GE,Ericsson,Tyco,M/A Com legacy is going to live on, Harris has a good shot at it. The Mastr III platform is a decent base station. Notice, Kenwood isn't noted with making a heavy duty public safety grade base/repeater.
Hrm, You never did tell us what you do ? A radio tech ? Scanner hobbyist ? Dispatcher ? or other ?
Nope I don't, and from the sounds of you you don't either.
You said you were talking to "one of the troops". My experience is that the officers don't have good detail of new systems. They are just told they are getting one, and maybe a few minor details. Most officers don't have interest in radio and it's only a mere tool for their job and could care less how it works. Without caring, they don't absorb the details and focus on it being a tool.
Nexedge and P25 are not really in the same class. Hard to really compare. Commercial vs public safety protocols. Nexedge and Trbo make great commercial systems, and some will argue they make great public safety systems. They dont. Will they in the future ? I don't know.
"just like the way Motorola trunks is sole source". Really ? A Motorola P25 trunked system is closed to other vendors ? Hrmm. Oh you mean Smartnet...that is no longer sold (see EF Johnson URL as listed before). Yes Motorola is totally evil for making a very reliable, redundant, proven trunking format that ended up becoming the backbone of P25 trunking and stolen by other companies . *insert eye roll here*
Lets back up in time here. Back before we had the "interoperability" bandwagon, P25, etc.... Smartnet licensing was locked down to Motorola, EDACS was locked down to GE/Ericsson..etc. Back then, it was ok to do that. However, in today's public safety world, that's not the case. In fact, I invite Kenwood's on my systems. It actually helps our sales
Since you seem to anti Motorola, why isn't Kenwood installing large systems ? Analog , digital, simulcast...etc ? Not much going on here. Just tons of TKR850's on a farmer's silo. Kenwood makes ZERO phase stable simulcast equipment. Tait's simulcast relies on the daily "reboot" to get everything back in line.
Harris is a good company. My dealership sells Harris equipment (non radio). It's good stuff. If the GE,Ericsson,Tyco,M/A Com legacy is going to live on, Harris has a good shot at it. The Mastr III platform is a decent base station. Notice, Kenwood isn't noted with making a heavy duty public safety grade base/repeater.
Hrm, You never did tell us what you do ? A radio tech ? Scanner hobbyist ? Dispatcher ? or other ?
jrw14493
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Since you don't know anything about IWN or WSP and since you don't pay Washington State taxes, (this topic, forum and specific thread) I'm going to discontinue replying to your arguments as we are now off-topic (I see the hammer hovering). I'm not going to school you on Kenwood's Product line as you have attempted to school me on Motorola's products.
This isn't a dick swinging contest and it doesn't matter what we do or where we come from. I work for a small shop and recently completed two years of trade school studying Communication Systems amongst other things. You obviously don't know where I come from, who I've talked to or what I know in regards to this system. Likewise, I have ignored where you come from because it's irrelevant to the topic.
This isn't a dick swinging contest and it doesn't matter what we do or where we come from. I work for a small shop and recently completed two years of trade school studying Communication Systems amongst other things. You obviously don't know where I come from, who I've talked to or what I know in regards to this system. Likewise, I have ignored where you come from because it's irrelevant to the topic.
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Wow Joey, very professional and mature reply. I guess I was expecting a bit more coming from one of the "professionals". You have painted a great example here.
Myself and a couple of others watching this thread understand the inner workings of a government owned radio system. You truly just don't understand what happens. I am sure you will take that as a insult, but I am being honest. Fire off slurs, lose your temper, post immature pics..or whatever you wish to do.
Yes, perhaps you should discontinue discussing this topic with me.
(tips hat) 73's
Myself and a couple of others watching this thread understand the inner workings of a government owned radio system. You truly just don't understand what happens. I am sure you will take that as a insult, but I am being honest. Fire off slurs, lose your temper, post immature pics..or whatever you wish to do.
Yes, perhaps you should discontinue discussing this topic with me.
(tips hat) 73's
The tower numbers are right. A Little reading for you.
http://forums.radioreference.com/tr...ding/227016-site-id-unitrunker-vs-uniden.html
If you run Unitrunker you get one thing, if you run Procom96 you get something different , same thing with scanners.
With the new updates my Psr-500 and 600 as well as my Pro-96 show the IWN site IDS as, an example show a site ID of S 007, with Unitrunker the program displays 001-007 as the site ID, with Procom96 the new VER. it displays 107 (T0107)
Amazingly cogent, coherent, and well composed reply Ken. Congrats.
I also assert that the data is incorrect.
Mike
Perhaps you could narrow this statement down a bit, is it the site Id's, control channels or the frequency's that are incorrect in your view.
I had my 500 running procom96 and the 600 running unitrunker all day, with my 96 and HP1 on voice. and fixed the stuff in my area, although everything I received was encrypted.
If your offering to help that would be great.
I'll second what the others have said. While the data around your location may be correct, overall the system needs a good house cleaning. Much has changed with the IWN since it went on the air and some of the early data that was submitted has become outdated. There are some incomplete sites, some sites have moved and/or the locations were poor guesses, frequencies have changed and there are many more sites on the air now than are listed in the database.
I will be glad to add what I can to update the database, but some of my information was given to me by others and I'm not free to distribute that.
And I'll buy dinner for anyone who can prove to me that Site 116 is on the air in Mt. Vernon, WA!
- Chris
It would be site 16 not 116 and your right, it is not on the air. I am just right down the road and I get dead air.
One more point here I am fallowing the site ID format set by this web site not others.
like I have said in past post, different scanners show different site ID numbers, so for the time being until I am directed to do so,site IDs stand as they are,
like I have said in past post, different scanners show different site ID numbers, so for the time being until I am directed to do so,site IDs stand as they are,
Wilrobnson
Rock or Something
116? What's that?
16 - Yes. I do most of my field research on the IWN using PRO96COM, so I'm used to referring to them by that programs numbering system.
My hope is that with the additional interest of the IWN project, spurred on by the WSP usage, may generate more listeners and more system information from areas we haven't heard from before...
- Chris
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