New Washington State Patrol Radio System Information

[vansigint98661]

Chris, contact me on the Yahoo address. I want to chat with you about that program. I know I've asked before, but I'm having a senior moment and Bob indicated that Trunker won't do what I'm thinking so I suspect Pro96Com might. Also wanted to know what information on TGs you want tracked because just using my 396 and 396XT I've been reading a lot of weekend traffic.

 

[lowboy654]

I wonder if anyone's caught onto the fact WSP has been using the IWN system for awhile now, north of Seattle?

Or that they've been partnered with the system, vis-a-vis microwave backbones and tower sites, for several years?

OR that the IWN system isn't exclusively trunked? I feel pretty certain you'll see a mixed trunking/conventional use of the system by WSP, just like CBP and all the other major IWN users have. Trunking where the coverage makes it feasible; conventional where it doesn't.

I am very North of Seattle, In Stanwood. From what I hear WSP is still very active on VHF. Just what is it that makes you think that they are on IWN at this time, because all of the radio traffic on IWM on my end is encrypted, so I am not sure how you come up with that, unless you have some insider info?

 

[radiofan1]

Also will be watching for more $ being authorized as with Motorola involved there will be no attempt to stick to budget.

Fixed for ya :wink:

 

[Wilrobnson]

OK, people want details, fine.

WSP is moving to a mixed-mode, multi-band system. They're going to be using Motorola APX 7000 portable radios (1200 of them), and APX 7500 mobile radios (1200 of them). They're going to be using a mix of trunked and conventional sites/systems. IWN is one of them. Also, I wouldn't be surprised to hear troopers on existing P25 trunked systems.

Additionally, they're going to be building out eight 700mhz trunked sites. Where, I have no idea, but if I were you, I'd look at places that historically require more troopers and don't have a lot of IWN coverage or existing P25 trunked systems...Like say, Olympia?

They're also going to be filling in a lot of the IWN coverage gaps in places like Eastern WA, the coast, the passes, etc with 28 new conventional sites.

Bad news? All the new radios come with AES encryption standard, along with OTAR and OTAP (OverTheAir Rekeying and Programming, respectively).

I hear they will be utilizing full encryption on everything. Who's to say that won't change down the road, with maybe area channels being in the clear, if the media cries foul loud enough? I don't know.

Look for the changes to start in February.

 

[kd7kdc]

Thank you for the update.
The suspense was killing me

73
Steve

 

[jacobsmith]

Will the new digital system be patched to the old analog system for a while? So we can atleast monitor for a while before the analog system is taken out of service. Also, will the Seattle Post be on the IWN System or it's own set of conventional frequncies? (Sorry if I misunderstood but it seems like they will be using trunking AND conventional?)

 

[SCPD]

Is WSP still moving to the IWN? Such a stupid idea; I think but... eh, whatever.

 

[vansigint98661]

So far, seems so. However, a current news story (see News and Announcement section) in the Tacoma News Tribune, seems to indicate that someone is at least watching the controversy of the IG's report. But, like all reporters, this one doesn't seem to understand what the FCC Mandate is all about. Someone in the area there should get him some information about it so they can see what a boondogle WSP hitching to this system really is. Maybe they will even dig deeper into how it can possibly be less expensive to join such a technologically advanced (unneeded) system when we already own a great deal of that very inftrastructure. If Fed'l funding just goes away for IWN, Washington would have to pick up the slack or be stuck with an unfunded system. The article says they have a contingency for that. Like to know what that might be from a taxpayer point of view. Anyway, the article is new and on the opening page.

 

[icom1020]

But the backbone is already built out and running in Washington State, courtesy of the Feds, so why not use it?

 

[vansigint98661]

My understanding is that they built the backbone on portions of the WSP/WSDOT microwave loop(s), and added a few of their own sites. So WA tax dollars have been in it most if not all along. Obviously, that continues. But the whole point of joining this system full of un-needed features for road troopers with an overly ambitious technology (read more expensive) was to save money. If the Fed's de-fund it, we will be left holding the whole bag or tricks we didn't need to begin with. I'm a believer in the KISS method. And, just 'cause they say so doesn't make it true concerning the savings of money. Portions of this deal are being withheld from the public as well. Then there's the whole thing about non-competitive bids. I've got nothing against Moto (which seems to work fine here), but all the major firms have reputations for over-designing systems to sell product. They (along with proponents who have an agenda) influence political decision making by feeding half-true information as fact. Digital vs. Analog for example. How many times have you heard that it is a mandate by the narrowbanding deadline? They are simply trying to sell systems and perhaps in this case trying to keep one alive by getting subscribers and funders. I don't know what the truth is here because they are only giving information they want released. My question is simple. How is investing in a system with so many technologically advanced features going to save money over a simpler non-trunk, single mode system? Some seem to be saying that it's because it's an existing system, we just climb aboard. But we are already part of that having allowed use of our sites and portions of the backbone already. So, it's something we already have anyway.

It simply seems to me that keeping the road troopers on a simple system is warranted and purchasing the mixed mode radios for special ops units to use on task forces has got to be less costly. And ultimately, less likely to be problematic at getting the communications out. This is simply MHO.

As for those trying to sell this as creating interop between those unable now. REALLY??? Unless they are planning on bringing aboard everyone in two states that's BS. Interop btwn some Feds and WSP, yup. But the Cities and Counties are still on their own systems, not the IWN. I didn't see anything about creating "gateways". But more than one article tryting to sell this system seems to push the "making it easier for the City to talk to the County to talk to the State".

Not down in the Portland/Vancouver Metro area. The Feds have talkgroups on the local 800 TRS's. The one group not capable of interop (per-se) is WSP, who does have LERN in the radios and there is a corresponding TG, but even the WSP TG on the CRESA TRS is monitor only. Likewise, there is an old local County frequency now licensed by the State, which re-broadcasts mainly CCSO from WSP tower at Dist. 5 HQ so the troopers can monitor them. I'm told this is switchable to any CRESA TG, but this is the only one I have heard. I am also told that WSP intends on maintaining the basic statewide interop frequencies in analog no matter what they do in order to make them accessable. (NLEC/LERN/OSCCR/REDNET/ DNR Common/etc.)

My whole point from my first post, which albeit proved wrong, is that they really need to keep it simple. Let them get more exotic when we can afford better as a State. When they are not denying people basic needs in order to fund fancy stuff they don't really need.

But again, it's just my humble opinion.

 

[sepura]

Any updates? I haven't heard anything or seen anything new online. I read somewhere that they'll start moving to the new system in Feb. I haven't heard any digital patched audio to the old analog repeaters so I'm guessing that is not correct.

 

[vansigint98661]

Updates from Up North??

We were told that WSP would implement change-over to the new system (widely reported to be IWN) in February or March. Initially reported here to be in the Snohomish Co area. Did anyone up there monitor the demise of the old and initialization of the new?

Even if the end result is encryption, I am told that during the changeover, logging of TGIDs should result as tests in clear voice are the norm. Further, there was some question as to what frequencies would be used and for what. For example, would the existing licenses be used for inputs?

Thus far have not heard anything reported as starting. What do listeners up North have to report?

 

[sepura]

We were told that WSP would implement change-over to the new system (widely reported to be IWN) in February or March. Initially reported here to be in the Snohomish Co area. Did anyone up there monitor the demise of the old and initialization of the new?

Even if the end result is encryption, I am told that during the changeover, logging of TGIDs should result as tests in clear voice are the norm. Further, there was some question as to what frequencies would be used and for what. For example, would the existing licenses be used for inputs?

Thus far have not heard anything reported as starting. What do listeners up North have to report?

I can hear Everett from my location in Kitsap County, still using VHF analog 155.655... may I add I LOVE WSPs Everett repeater... has a longer hang time than most I've heard anywhere else in the state. I can't stand the hang time being like one second. Too much noise at once for me haha.

 

[vansigint98661]

Thanks for the reply. I'm getting the same news from the WA Scan group on Facebook. They all say they have heard no change yet and some are saying unlike the news we've heard the vendors are still working things out. Some even think like I have previously posted. But had not heard since earlier in year and things were supposed to begin to happen a couple months back.

Anyone else hear anything??

 

[cabletech]

New to the fourm, but here is my $0.50 worth.

I have read thru this post very slowly several times, and except for one poster (no names), I think all of you have the wrong idea about IWN and trunking for the WSP.

As some one who has been working in the radio business for 30+ yrears with all levels of goverment, I can tell you that things are on a up ward beat for the WSP.

I was also involed in the testing for the WSP system testing. I have been there, seen it.

1) IWN..........INTERGRATED WIRELESS NETWORK (Internet for radio systems)
2) P25...........Project 25 Title of the technoligy for new radio systems
3) Trunking....The combining of frequency's (5 to 30) under computer control for more effecenct use
4) Analog or Ditigal...The means of the voice audio that is transmitted -- recieved by a radio
5) Narrown Band.. The bandwith used by a radio frequency, FCC mandated ONLY the divideing of a 25kz frequency into two 12.5 kz frequency's. DOES NOT MADATE Y THING ELSE.
6) Convental mode...the use of one or two frequency's (repeater) to talk directly to another user

First off, the FCC mandated that all users below 512 mhz narrow band by midnight Dec 31 2012.
This does not mean that anyone has to go digital or go to trunking, just change the frequency band with.

Now, the IWN project was started back in 2004, when the FED's and Canadian Gov't started looking at better ways to talk to each other and in prep for the 2010 Olympic's.

The IWN system has many relay locations along the US/Candain border and IS NOT a normal repeater system as has been described, it is a microwave system take carriers use to past data and voice information for location to location.

This system has since been expanded to cover over 90% of the state of washington and is used by all the feds, canada and some local goverments.

When the WSP started looking at what it was going to take to comply with narrow banding rules, it was found that in order to provide the some coverage in narrow band that is currently being used in wide band, then over 100 new tower sites had to be aquired, either as a reciever location or as a tranmitter location or both, which also would have to include microwave equipment to send information to a central location, (Dispatch). BIG $$$$

Now then comes the feds and they tell the state that since the IWN back bone is in place, why do you not save money and come on board the system instead of spending big $$ to build out more of your own sites.

After a lot of reserch on the current locations of the IWN sites vs the locations needed for WSP, it was found that this is a VERY good move, as in the long run only a very small number of sites would have to be added.

What this means is, not only can the WSP but also the DOT, DNR, and other state agency's can now pick up a radio and be able to talk to any one any where within the state or to other agency's that are tyied into the system to include any local goverment. (read police,fire). and all agency's to pass data,
(read, license checks)

The WSP is going to narrow band ONLY, no encription and yes there are going to change out equipment in the mobiles and portables to a radio that will allow for the ablity to change channels and talk directly to the local police even thru they are using 800 trunking.

No major frequency changes other then narrow banding is being planned.

As for the trunking, the way that the WSP operates state wide, trunking is NOT a useable item as trunking as a whole will not work over a very large area, (read over about a 50 mile radius), so this
IS NOT a option for the patrol.

Analog voice in the current 25kz frequency band, uses 5kz for audio, in narrow band 12.5 band the audio will be 2.5kz.

Digital is NOT allowed in the 25kz band and will use ONLY 1.7 to 2kz in the narrow band.

Yes, the WSP is also thinking that when they go narrow band, that they will go to the digital audio format as the digial will allow for the passing of data more efficently.

There is some of this new equpment already in use up north of Everett since 2009 and has been working great and has allowed the WSP to talk directly to FEDS and canada.

I also own and operate two radio systems, both narrow band with one in analog and one in digital and
both in convental mode.

I hope that this helps and if anyone has serious questions, please PM me.

Thank you for time.

 

[jrw14493]

As intelligent as you say you are I cant believe that you wouldn't proof read something like that before you post...

I respectfully disagree with several things you say but can't we all just wait and see what actually happens before we start claiming to know what is right and wrong?

This thread is getting rediculous with the "well this is what is going on because I have personally blah blah blah..."

 

[im800mhz]

You guys make for great entertainment.

 

[cabletech]

jrw since I do not have enough posts to send you a PM or email, would you be kind enough to send me one?

I have a couple of questions I would like to ask.

Thank you

 

[vansigint98661]

I agree with jrw. We need to determine what's actually happening. Which is why I asked here and on WA Scan for status updates in the area to the North where it was to begin.

Lots of conjecture. I've clearly thrown my 2 cents in and admit I'm ignorant (but opinionated) on this because I see what State Govt here has been up to and people are suffering. Poor choices.

But back on task, until we have a clearer picture we won't know. That said, we need to be prepared for those that care anyway, to listen and log talk groups if they are on the trunk portion, because even if eventually it's encrypted, it's likely to test in the clear. (Or so I'm told by people who should know.) This will tell us a lot if they do throw the switch.

 

[lowboy654]

Joe, spelling and stuff may not be everyones thing and getting that collage smarty pants thing does not always bring the big dollars, I my self cant put two words together but I make well over 100,000 a year.
and I have not made it past the 12th. so your book learning is just that book learning. you can reply to this but I wont.