Newark and Hudson County FCC applications

[nosoup4u]

I noticed this today in my weekly search:

Newark City Trunk System Application
ULS Application - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Trunked - 0007860443 - NEWARK, CITY OF

Hudson County Trunk System Applications (I seem to remember this being discussed in the past)
ULS Application - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Trunked - 0007859050 - HUDSON, COUNTY OF
ULS Application - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Trunked - 0007859295 - HUDSON, COUNTY OF
ULS Application - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Trunked - 0007860444 - HUDSON, COUNTY OF

 

[ten13]

This is all very good, and well over-due, but don't these people talk to each other, BEFORE they set up these systems?

Hudson Co. on 800; Jersey City on 400; nearby Newark on the statewide system; North Hudson Fire on VHF; and Hoboken, as usual, doing their own thing on 400.

I don't know how efficient all this will be when yet another radio has to be installed and another portable has to be carried.

 

[AlexC]

This is all very good, and well over-due, but don't these people talk to each other, BEFORE they set up these systems?

No one talks in New Jersey about anything with communications. There is no regional planning at all. Most seem to do what they want or rely on a vendor who simply doesn't know any better than to how to make a sale.

Hudson Co. on 800; Jersey City on 400; nearby Newark on the statewide system; North Hudson Fire on VHF; and Hoboken, as usual, doing their own thing on 400.

Hoboken Fire & EMS are on two UHF TBand channels. Hoboken Police is on 800 conventional. You left out Union City which is 800 mhz p25 trunking single site.

I don't know how efficient all this will be when yet another radio has to be installed and another portable has to be carried.

You are assuming these folks actually do talk to each other and have each others frequencies and portable radios. That is just not the case. Everyone talks back to their respective centers and those centers relay. There seemingly is no drive to standardize on "meet me" type channels which would allow the JC guy to talk to the UCPD guy who is going to tell the Hoboken EMS unit responding where to put their ambulance and which patient to take. (Example - not saying the police make who is taking who where call just illustrating a point).

The dispatch centers will call each other on the phone, Hudson County LEARN (which seems to be used a lot) and is on the state trunked system), by waving signal flags, or possibly sending a raven (Game of Thrones reference...)

What would be a neat idea is merge the Union City 800 Channels, the two 800mhz Hoboken frequencies in to the state system. Combine Jersey City's UHF trunk system as a site off of the PSIC system so that their talk groups are accessible on 800, but, now, they can also drag Hoboken, UC, etc., on to their UHF system and allow direct communication between their units and others....

But that requires people giving up their span of control and allowing the state to control a lot of equipment bought with local dollars.

 

[ten13]

I understand that there was a statewide meeting of OEMs and the like in Essex County not too long ago, and Hudson County didn't even show up.
From what I hear, the NJSP has written off Hudson Co. OEM because they are...to be polite...ineffective.

 

[WQPW689]

Link to a prior discussion:

https://forums.radioreference.com/new-jersey-radio-discussion-forum/327825-hudson-county-700-a.html

The reality is that shared resources and interoperability have never been overriding concerns in Hudson County. As was ably explained by the poster above, PS personnel from those cities are mainly concerned with (and have enough to do in) their own bailiwicks. When issues spill over, the dispatch centers relay.

 

[AlexC]

Link to a prior discussion:

https://forums.radioreference.com/new-jersey-radio-discussion-forum/327825-hudson-county-700-a.html

The reality is that shared resources and interoperability have never been overriding concerns in Hudson County. As was ably explained by the poster above, PS personnel from those cities are mainly concerned with (and have enough to do in) their own bailiwicks. When issues spill over, the dispatch centers relay.

Funny - the last post in your link echo's my above comment.

understand that there was a statewide meeting of OEMs and the like in Essex County not too long ago, and Hudson County didn't even show up.
From what I hear, the NJSP has written off Hudson Co. OEM because they are...to be polite...ineffective.

People have to learn to make communications a priority. You can talk about us but you certainly can't talk without us.

 

[WQPW689]

Funny - the last post in your link echo's my above comment.

You were the poster above I was referring to.

 

[RadioDitch]

I noticed this today in my weekly search:

Newark City Trunk System Application
ULS Application - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Trunked - 0007860443 - NEWARK, CITY OF

Application lists it as P25 Phase I and Phase II emissions. Grrrreeeaaatttt...

 

[Murenovich]

Wouldn't it just make sense for them to jump on NJICS being Fire has already been on the system for years and theirs plenty of system coverage in newark and the surrounding area?

 

[Murenovich]

Also I noticed they reached out to Berkeley Township and another system in Connecticut to make sure there was no interference or anything so at least they did that.

ULS Application - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Trunked - 0007859050 - HUDSON, COUNTY OF - Attachments
- State of CT

ULS Application - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Trunked - 0007859050 - HUDSON, COUNTY OF - Attachments
- Berkeley Twp

But i couldn't agree more that it seems nobody talks to each other ironically about communications in NJ.

 

[coolrich55]

Application lists it as P25 Phase I and Phase II emissions. Grrrreeeaaatttt...

Sadly the days of listening to Newark PD for most are probably almost over. And that's only if they don't go completely encrypted.

 

[RadioDitch]

Sadly the days of listening to Newark PD for most are probably almost over. And that's only if they don't go completely encrypted.

I was trying not to say it, but....yup. And I'm more than willing to bet that based on three incidents that I know of in the last two years where an evading suspect in Newark was utilizing a live feed.

 

[rr60]

Not to be overlooked is the contact on the Newark FCC application.

The contact is very well known for sometime and really good.

I have noticed that Newark licensing efforts have significantly increased with his arrival.

I would expect to see major changes in Newark with a resource like that.

 

[AlexC]

Wouldn't it just make sense for them to jump on NJICS being Fire has already been on the system for years and theirs plenty of system coverage in newark and the surrounding area?

We (collectively) have to start thinking on a bigger scale. Everyone sees license requests go in to the FCC. The licenses is for a frequency or group of frequency's and is not specific to what they are doing with those. The NJICS/PSIC system has wide area coverage and does not really take in to account in building or portable level street coverage in most major metro areas in NJ. I'm sure it is built to give some, but, not what you would build out if you were a individual system owner.

A lot of these licenses (and I suspect the Hudson County ones fall in to this bucket) are likely locally built sites/simulcast cells which support coverage in specific area(as) where the system will not provide adequate coverage (e.g. the old analog / digital system there today will be better than tomorrow's trunked system).

Also consider capacity (example):

You have a phone system at your office. Every phone on a desk does not mean it has a telephone line tied to it. Someone (maybe - again enter the sales person) did some research to determine system loading to ensure every time a customer calls the phone can ring. When someone needs to call, a phone can ring. When someone dials 9-1-1 there is always a open line JUST for that reason which will never be tied up by someone calling in or out. Enter your need for 8 phone lines, plus, maybe that 1 emergency / 911 channel.

Now CEO wants to bring in a new sales team - 20 people. Everyone wants a widget. These 20 people are going to be on the phone all the time. All of a sudden his team of 20 people can't call out at the same time.

Think of the office as PSIC/NJICS and the new Sales Team - Newark PD - and now you see why all these license requests are popping up. You have to calculate out your capacity needs and coverage needs to ensure that you always have the right amount of resources ready to go.

There is your answer... Likely not a new system - just an expansion and growth of a current one to accomodate more sales people and a new widget.

Alex

[Ninja edit - now because the above might make sense it will not happen in NJ!]

 

[richee2000]

newark PD uses conventional uhf channels. this new newark pd licence is for a new 800 mhz trunking system . it is a new system.

 

[NJEMT12982]

Loaded handgun, police scanner found during traffic stop | NJ.com

And this is why sooner then later we will no longer be able to monitor NPD...

 

[ansky]

Loaded handgun, police scanner found during traffic stop | NJ.com

And this is why sooner then later we will no longer be able to monitor NPD...

Maybe. But honestly this is nothing new. I lived in Jersey City 10 years ago and there were several incidents of criminals being caught with a scanner. JCPD is still in the clear all this time.

 

[RadioDitch]

Loaded handgun, police scanner found during traffic stop | NJ.com

And this is why sooner then later we will no longer be able to monitor NPD...

The issue is that this is one of many in Newark/Harrison in the last year alone. Scanners and use of live feeds that is. Two of which involved a pursuit in which someone was seriously injured. NPD clearly stated after those that they intended to take steps to secure communications. It is more likely than not at this point that the new system will be encrypted.

 

[Analogrules]

From what I hear from friends who work in public safety, more than half of NJ PD's will be encrypted in about 2-3 years from now. Furthermore, even a lot of EMS will coordinate on encrypted "special ops channels", and only the main dispatch will be in the clear (if we are lucky). Therefore these ridiculous expensive digital scanners won't be much better than a simple analog scanner.

 

[APX8000]

That's a lot of PD's. You must have a lot of friends.


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