Newbie in HOA

[Abies]

This is my first post here. I'm introducing myself and also asking for advice.

I just started getting seriously interested in radio late last year after we decided where to live next. I don't have my technician license yet though I recently completed the ARRL technician study book. Getting my license is on hold for the moment as I'm in the process of downsizing my belongings and moving shortly (late May). I expect to have my license by the end of July at the latest and I intend to go for the general license after that.

At first I thought I'd start with dual-band VHF/UHF before venturing into HF. However, the retirement community that we're moving into forbids any antennas other than the legal minimum, though technically there's a *little* bit of wiggle room that I may be able to eventually use. At this point the HOA is still in the control of the developer and probably extra-strict for that reason regarding visible non-conformities. So I realized a while back I'd need to (as mentioned in the very recent newbie thread) consider the antenna(s) first.

In addition, my interests have moved beyond just ham to other aspects of radio. I used to listen to shortwave long ago, but I've since realized there's a whole world of stuff going on across the spectrum including human communication and natural phenomena that I'd like to explore in coming years. Next year I'll also get into mobile as I resume my 4x4 expeditions. DX is not a priority at the moment but maybe I'll be interested later. Part of my interest is in having communications capabilities separate from the internet and phone systems. That means both having the equipment and using it often enough to develop and maintain the needed skills.

With the houses in my new neighborhood having stucco exterior walls containing metal and with foil-backed insulation, and the roofs consisting of concrete tiles, I figure that any VHF/UHF antenna would need to be above the overall roofline of the neighborhood to be workable for transmitting. That's probably not going to happen, or at least not for a couple of years until I get more familiar with the people and the powers-that-be in this new neighborhood (and after the developer relinquishes control). There are plenty of HOA horror stories, but they're not all like that. My current one is pretty mellow though I haven't tried to put up an antenna here.

So I'm thinking of first trying the 6- and 10-meter ham bands (good timing with the solar cycle). From what I've read, it seems like you can do these things (though far from optimally) with a fairly low antenna that's out of sight. From the sounds of things the HOA isn't too concerned about what goes on out of sight, and anyway I'd seek their formal approval to stay on good terms with them.

I had in mind one or more dipoles on the inner side of the fence, for instance (corner lot so the side fence doesn't abut a neighbor). I don't see an attic antenna as being a good choice for RF safety reasons (as per ARRL) and due to the building materials. Later with a general license I could go farther. There are discreet options like using a downspout as an antenna, magnetic loops, ferrite rod antennas for ELF listening, etc.

Along those lines, I also had in mind the IC-7300 since it's now on such a good sale ($1,000 US through June after both rebates). There's no point in paying just a little less for significantly less capability and features. It can also be used for monitoring down to 100 kHz.

I may play around a bit with a cheap mobile dual-band radio at home, but I see no point in investing significant effort and money in upper VHF and UHF at home unless I can get a rooftop antenna allowed at some point.

Does this sound like a reasonable plan? I'd appreciate your thoughts and especially any corrections.

Bill

 

[alcahuete]

Ahhhh, the joys of an HOA.

You're pretty much right with the VHF/UHF, but with repeaters, sometimes all you need is a handheld and you're fine, even indoors. But for anything meaningful, you will pretty much want an outside antenna, and the higher the better, since VHF/UHF is line-of-sight for all intents and purposes.

With HF, you can get a little more creative. Wires can be hard to see. Hang some clothes from them and it's no longer an antenna to prying eyes. There are flagpole antennas, which look like flagpoles (flag and all) but are multi-band HF antennas. Some of the higher band beam antennas, i.e. 10m, are around the same size as one of those old television antennas. The untrained eye probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. However, many HOAs ban those as well. Just remember that when the sunspot cycle goes toward minimum, 10m is dead as a doornail for the most part.

My friend in an HOA has 2 long wire antennas he ran along the top section of his wooden fence, around 5' up. One is configured for N/S, the other for E/W. Not the most ideal setup, but he has worked every continent, including Africa, which is a 10-11k mile trip from here in Socal. He also has a DX Commander that he can put up and take down in his backyard, and nobody notices...as long as he doesn't leave it up.

When I had the unfortunate experience of living in a HOA back in the 90s, I had some large trees in my backyard. While wires probably would have been easier, I ran a Cushcraft 25 or so feet vertical 5 feet off the ground, right next to a tree, and a Diamond 18-ish foot VHF/UHF antenna 10 feet off the ground next to another tree. Made a ton of long distance contacts on VHF/UHF, and racked up probably 10,000 contacts from all over the place on HF.

So a lot is possible even though you're in a HOA. Welcome to the hobby, BTW, and good luck on the test!

 

[N9JCQ]

Welcome to the forum and the hobby! I live in an HOA and I recently started using my aluminum gutters as an HF antenna with some pretty good success. I have a pretty tight squeeze getting access to my attic and have not tried to install a discone antenna upthere for my vhf/uhf work.

 

[sloop]

Abies I feel your pain, I also live in an HOA. My house is brick with siding in the eves and asphalt roofing. I put a j-pole (Arrow mfg.) in the eve and use a remote tuner with 90 feet of wire 'snaked' around the rafters for hf. True I won't win any dx contest but then I don't run 500 watts. I ran my coax through the wall into a closet and then up though the ceiling into the attic. This keeps my wife happy not being able to see the wires (lol). Good luck and remember where there's a will there's a way.

 

[AK9R]

I live an a neighborhood with antenna restrictions. I have a VHF/UHF vertical in the attic. For HF, my antennas are outside. I have a fan dipole with elements for 75/40/20 meters and a non-resonant vertical for the higher bands. The vertical is easy to see, but I only put it up when I want to use it. The fan dipole stays up all the time and the wires are mostly invisible.

 

[Abies]

Thanks everyone for the advice and welcomes!

We've been looking for a few years for houses in this town and not much is available in the used market. In general, people have refinanced to low mortgage rates in recent years and don't want to give that up by getting a new mortgage.

There was no way we were going to get a new house there, let alone one in a retirement community with house designs specifically for the aging (single level, wider doorways, etc.) without an HOA, so here we are. My wife and I both love the house and the lot so we're all in on this.

Once I have my general license, I'm thinking that 40 meters would be a good place to be since I should be able to get NVIS if my antenna is rather low to the ground as required by circumstances. I have enough side fence to make that possible with a dipole. Before then I have a number of options to play with as you all have mentioned.

My dream is to be allowed to put up a 4' rooftop vertical for VHF/UHF eventually, on the basis that the visual intrusion is minimal compared to a TV antenna, but at this point that sounds not very likely. I'm salivating over the Create log-periodic antennas but I suspect that even the smaller one isn't likely to be approved. I may try a discone antenna that I can put up for brief periods. We'll see...

 

[PewPewChris]

New to the hobby, currently doing online practice test/study to take my technicians license in the coming days. Also in an HOA, the bylaws don't prevent dishes or antennas but I'm sure some of the Karen's in my neighborhood will see things start to appear and have questions.

I'm 100% a noob when it comes to all things technical and scientific about amateur radio...but learning is half the reason I decided to dive in...that and I'd love to have communications that aren't tied to a cell tower if those ever were to go down for a long period of time...

 

[Falcon9h]

Good God... I wouldn't live within 1000 miles of a HOA. I'd be in trouble with the nazi Karens in a heartbeat and wouldn't have a house in one if you paid me to take it.

 

[PewPewChris]

I understand the general idea around HOA's. However, much like our federal government, I pay a decent annual HOA fee and it's continued to go up via "assessments" for things a handful of "neighbors" decide to do with our funds. Doing quick math, based on the # of homes in my neighborhood and the HOA fees...government spending math is 100% occurring. lol

 

[jim202]

My suggestion is to look at your attic and see how much room you have under the roof. I have a shingle roof which helps. Mounted all my 2 meter and 440 MHz. folded dipole antennas on a mast that I had a hole drilled into to top side of the mast. Then used a long wood screw and attached the mast to one of the roof rafter side. Pointed the folded dipole towards the repeater locations.

The lower frequencies can be a problem. I have an HOA where I live. But the president knows I am a ham and also a fire dept. volunteer. So I was able to put up HF dipoles in my back yard to several trees I have in my back yard. You can't see the HF dipoles from the street, so there was no issue. Just remember to install some sort of strain relief to keep the tree swaying bad in high winds.

I found a nice heavy door spring at my local Ace Hardware store. It is about an inch in diameter and 16 inches long. Add a chain repair link that screws closed an put a pulley on one end and a 5/16 screw eye on the other end. Put that into a tree. On the other end, no spring, but another pulley and what ever you need to attach it to something.

This way, you can raise both ends to service the antenna.

I tend to make fan dipoles to cover several bands at the same time. Like 80 meters, 40 meters, 20 meters and 10 meters. I put the 80 on the top and use 600 ohm ladder line spacers to keep the wires apart. I used #12 solid copper wire for all my antennas. Use the 80 meter one for the support on the top. On the end of the 10 meter dipole, I hanga square piece of cut off 2x4 on about a 1 foot piece of the black Dacron rope. This keeps the lower section of the fan dipoles from flipping over in the high winds we get in storms.

With the pulley on each end of the antenna, you can raise and lower it with little effort.

The center coax connection is done with an MFJ coax balion with eyes on each side. Not only does this provide a simple way to connect your coax to the antenna, but also reduces the static noise.

Jim

 

[Abies]

Thanks for all the info, Jim.

The roof is tile so it may not pass VHF and UHF frequencies very well, and may instead mainly reflect them down into the living area. I don't know yet whether the ceiling of the attic will have foil-backed insulation That would be a real barrier and a better reflector downward. ARRL recommends against attic-mounted transmitting antennas for safety reasons: Table 9.3

So far I've been thinking of a fence-mounted dipole for HF, but a wire I can raise and lower is certainly another option. It's a new house so there are no trees I can use. This is all still a few months in the future as I still need to move, get my license, and unpack some before I can realistically get serious about this. I'll also be consulting the local ham club for their advice.

I appreciate all the advice I've gotten here the past couple of days and I'll be saving it for later use. I expect that my antenna installations will be a series of experiments and refinements over time.

Bill

 

[kb1fua]

I look at it this way...
HOA's are there to keep the "undesirables" out...so, because I want a few antennas up, that "ruins the value of homes", then I become the "undesirable" and they want you out.
I almost went thru the HOA headache many years ago. Luckily I backed out. I have friends that had bought and moved in one, A year or two later- they wanted out, but had to only use the HOA to sell their home. Sadly, they didn't sell. HOAs are popping up all over now a days...nope, not for me!

 

[Abies]

HOA's are there to keep the "undesirables" out

Maybe originally, some decades ago. In recent times, HOAs are being required by the lenders who lend money to builders for construction of new developments. The idea is that the 'eye appeal' of the development, and the salability of newer houses as they are constructed over time, will be maintained until all the new homes are sold. That way the lender can be more assured of getting all their principal and interest back. Some towns also require HOAs for new developments. At present, over 30% of total U.S. housing stock is in an HOA: link.

At the same time, the supply of existing (usually non-HOA) houses for resale is down sharply since interest rates went up so much. People refinanced to get lower mortgage rates, and now they don't want to give up their cheaper mortgage by moving unless they really need to. So buying an existing non-HOA house isn't as easy as it normally would be, although that will vary a lot locally and regionally.

As the pinned thread states, expecting people to avoid HOAs is not helpful. If avoiding an HOA is paramount you can do that, but most people end up weighing a number of factors in choosing a home.

Personally I don't want an HOA. However, in my experience new retirement communities always seem to have them. The house we're buying is made for aging in, with one story, and wider hallways and doorways that will allow use of mobility aids as we get older. That outweighs the unwanted HOA in our opinion.

We spent several years looking for existing houses in and around this particular city and simply didn't find anything for sale that worked for us. So here we are, about to move into an HOA. You can't get everything you want.

 

[PewPewChris]

This is the verbiage from my HOA regarding antennas...

 

[kb1fua]

This is the verbiage from my HOA regarding antennas...
View attachment 160976

That's better than what they had in the 80's in the Dallas area!
We were not allowed any antennas other than tv, and the HOA had them installed prior to your occupancy.

 

[kb1fua]

Maybe originally, some decades ago. In recent times, HOAs are being required by the lenders who lend money to builders for construction of new developments. The idea is that the 'eye appeal' of the development, and the salability of newer houses as they are constructed over time, will be maintained until all the new homes are sold. That way the lender can be more assured of getting all their principal and interest back. Some towns also require HOAs for new developments. At present, over 30% of total U.S. housing stock is in an HOA: link.

At the same time, the supply of existing (usually non-HOA) houses for resale is down sharply since interest rates went up so much. People refinanced to get lower mortgage rates, and now they don't want to give up their cheaper mortgage by moving unless they really need to. So buying an existing non-HOA house isn't as easy as it normally would be, although that will vary a lot locally and regionally.

As the pinned thread states, expecting people to avoid HOAs is not helpful. If avoiding an HOA is paramount you can do that, but most people end up weighing a number of factors in choosing a home.

Personally I don't want an HOA. However, in my experience new retirement communities always seem to have them. The house we're buying is made for aging in, with one story, and wider hallways and doorways that will allow use of mobility aids as we get older. That outweighs the unwanted HOA in our opinion.

We spent several years looking for existing houses in and around this particular city and simply didn't find anything for sale that worked for us. So here we are, about to move into an HOA. You can't get everything you want.

Yes, it was in the 80s & 90's. That's exactly what they told me. I wouldn't have been able to drive and park my work vehicle in the driveway, because it was permanently labeled. I never moved in, I lost the money I put down on it, but walked away.
I'm glad your situation is different now with your HOA.
Good luck with your antenna work. Black wires in the trees are nearly invisible! I hope you are able to get something going!
I'm retired as well (very recent...6/1/23), I live in a small cabin (500 sq ft) on half an acre in the woods, off the lake, with no neighbors. I wouldn't change it for nothing!

 

[Abies]

Yes, it was in the 80s & 90's. That's exactly what they told me. I wouldn't have been able to drive and park my work vehicle in the driveway, because it was permanently labeled. I never moved in, I lost the money I put down on it, but walked away.
I'm glad your situation is different now with your HOA.
Good luck with your antenna work. Black wires in the trees are nearly invisible! I hope you are able to get something going!
I'm retired as well (very recent...6/1/23), I live in a small cabin (500 sq ft) on half an acre in the woods, off the lake, with no neighbors. I wouldn't change it for nothing!

Yeah, the prohibitions on commercial vehicles, RVs, trailers, etc. seem to be pretty common. You can't even store a boat or a small trailer in your garage in my new HOA. No skin off my back, but I'd like to see others treated better.

Once the developer relinquishes control of the HOA, I'm going to see if I can get a number of restrictions eased in a package deal. Something for lots of different people including hams. That might just get enough support to pass. If it doesn't work in my case, it might still work for some others.

 

[kb1fua]

Yes sir that's what I've understood as well thru the years.
Stuff like that is what put a mark in my mind on living situations.
I hope you can! Good luck!

 

[Falcon9h]

Yeah, the prohibitions on commercial vehicles, RVs, trailers, etc. seem to be pretty common. You can't even store a boat or a small trailer in your garage in my new HOA. No skin off my back, but I'd like to see others treated better.

Once the developer relinquishes control of the HOA, I'm going to see if I can get a number of restrictions eased in a package deal. Something for lots of different people including hams. That might just get enough support to pass. If it doesn't work in my case, it might still work for some others.

With my temper and aversion to BS I'd land in jail the day I moved in-if I were insane enough to do so.

 

[radiobuff0978]

This is my first post here. I'm introducing myself and also asking for advice.

I just started getting seriously interested in radio late last year after we decided where to live next. I don't have my technician license yet though I recently completed the ARRL technician study book. Getting my license is on hold for the moment as I'm in the process of downsizing my belongings and moving shortly (late May). I expect to have my license by the end of July at the latest and I intend to go for the general license after that.

At first I thought I'd start with dual-band VHF/UHF before venturing into HF. However, the retirement community that we're moving into forbids any antennas other than the legal minimum, though technically there's a *little* bit of wiggle room that I may be able to eventually use. At this point the HOA is still in the control of the developer and probably extra-strict for that reason regarding visible non-conformities. So I realized a while back I'd need to (as mentioned in the very recent newbie thread) consider the antenna(s) first.

In addition, my interests have moved beyond just ham to other aspects of radio. I used to listen to shortwave long ago, but I've since realized there's a whole world of stuff going on across the spectrum including human communication and natural phenomena that I'd like to explore in coming years. Next year I'll also get into mobile as I resume my 4x4 expeditions. DX is not a priority at the moment but maybe I'll be interested later. Part of my interest is in having communications capabilities separate from the internet and phone systems. That means both having the equipment and using it often enough to develop and maintain the needed skills.

With the houses in my new neighborhood having stucco exterior walls containing metal and with foil-backed insulation, and the roofs consisting of concrete tiles, I figure that any VHF/UHF antenna would need to be above the overall roofline of the neighborhood to be workable for transmitting. That's probably not going to happen, or at least not for a couple of years until I get more familiar with the people and the powers-that-be in this new neighborhood (and after the developer relinquishes control). There are plenty of HOA horror stories, but they're not all like that. My current one is pretty mellow though I haven't tried to put up an antenna here.

So I'm thinking of first trying the 6- and 10-meter ham bands (good timing with the solar cycle). From what I've read, it seems like you can do these things (though far from optimally) with a fairly low antenna that's out of sight. From the sounds of things the HOA isn't too concerned about what goes on out of sight, and anyway I'd seek their formal approval to stay on good terms with them.

I had in mind one or more dipoles on the inner side of the fence, for instance (corner lot so the side fence doesn't abut a neighbor). I don't see an attic antenna as being a good choice for RF safety reasons (as per ARRL) and due to the building materials. Later with a general license I could go farther. There are discreet options like using a downspout as an antenna, magnetic loops, ferrite rod antennas for ELF listening, etc.

Along those lines, I also had in mind the IC-7300 since it's now on such a good sale ($1,000 US through June after both rebates). There's no point in paying just a little less for significantly less capability and features. It can also be used for monitoring down to 100 kHz.

I may play around a bit with a cheap mobile dual-band radio at home, but I see no point in investing significant effort and money in upper VHF and UHF at home unless I can get a rooftop antenna allowed at some point.

Does this sound like a reasonable plan? I'd appreciate your thoughts and especially any corrections.

Bill

For HF, I ran a 9:1 Unun tapped in to my gutter and ran radials. For UHF VHF, I hung a JPole antenna in a nearby tree, and I buried the coax cable. I ran my main HF coax around the side of my house through a garden and covered it with mulch. I worked quite a few DX stations. My window had some brick below the window, and I found a paint close to the brick color. Sprayed the coax and it blended in. Stealth is the key. Good luck!