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XPR Noise Cancelling RSM vs. SINC.

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hockeyref2

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We use xpr 3300 series radios in an industrial/manufacturing environment (read: loud). Currently in Analog but plan to go to DMR when I have enough radios replaced. I have been buying new radios with PMMN4071A - the noise cancelling RSM. One issue we run into when testing out DMR is that you end up with holes in the audio.... I think its actually the noise cancelling on the RSM doing it. If you speak extremely loudly (over the noise, which can be >100db) it is not as bad, but I cannot expect people to yell all day long. If you enable basic or advanced noise cancelling (SINC) Intelligent Audio, it seems to make things even worse.

I just ordered/tried a PMMN4073A RSM which is windporting but non noise cancelling. With no noise cancellation on the radio (intelligent audio) it was not great. With Basic noise cancelling, you could tell someone was talking but could not tell anything they said. With Advanced Auto, it actually worked pretty well. My co-worker actually thought that the audio coming across was actually louder. I have not done quite enough testing to see if the audio clipping is improved.

The RSM's are about the same price, and the cost of SINC+ on the older radios is negligible...

Does anyone have any experience with this? Or thoughts and comments?
Thanks!
 

K2NEC

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With the PMMN4071 it should be noticeably better. I think that mic would be your best bet since it is listed as a noise cancelling mic. Make sure that the user is talking right into the front of the mic and not off to the side of it. I don't think there is an INC RSM for the 3300 like there is the 7550. I have never had any luck with the noise cancelling in the programming it just seems to make the audio worse no matter the situation. When the audio cuts out on DMR it is just how the the mic picks up the audio not much you can do about that unfortunately.
 

hockeyref2

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Thanks!
Using the RSM correctly will be a challenge... I wish the RSM speaker was louder. I know in digital you can use the intelligent audio to boost it. Nothing available in analog. The INC RSM is not available for the 3x00 series.
 

K2NEC

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The only thing I can think of is turning mic gain up or hoping AGC will do the best. The XPR3000 series are good radios they just aren't meant for the environment you are using them in
 

TampaTyron

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Enhanced noise cancelling and noise cancelling mics do not work well together. They fight each other. I would do basic noise cancelling and a noise cancelling mic. Keep in mind each mic has an "Intended Use Position" and is not forgiving if used outside of those positions (i.e. talk across vs talk into mic). I cannot remember if you can set the 3300 for Loud Environment and Preference to Mid. I fight this stuff on a daily basis. There is no one size fits all. TT
 

hockeyref2

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In my testing, using AGC and RX Audio Leveling provided the best results. I found the same results with Advanced noise cancelling and NC RSM that you mentioned... Where do I find the Intended Use Position?
Thanks!
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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I was doing coverage testing on a P25 System which used the IMBE vocoder and we tested inside a noisy bar with lots of people talking and the vocoder did some very nonlinear things. AMBE might be better, but it will be a challenge.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
 

hockeyref2

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A little update. My dealer told me today that per Motorola, I would want a non-NC RSM (like PMMN4073a) and use SINC+ (advanced noise cancelling).
 

redrock2002

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We have xpr7550e's and xpr3500e's with the noise cancelling mics. What seems to be the best so far for us is basic noise cancelling and AGC set to OFF and the radio mic gain at 0 and the remote mic gain at 0. Then with the "tuner" program I have changed the Rated Volume and Internal Rated Volume sliders to 245. This basically opens up the top end of the volume so the speakers are louder.

With AGC on and enhanced auto noise cancelling the user that spoke sounded like under water. When the user was around extreme noise you couldn't understand the user at all. So we turned off AGC first which helped a little. Then I turned down the gain for the radio mic and accessory mic which helped even more for the user to be more "natural" sounding even in noise but when the user was in extreme noise they still sounded under water a little so then I went to basic noise cancelling and that is where we are at atm. Will have to see once we finally do switch to cap plus.
 

TampaTyron

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Tell your dealer to prove it............ i.e. get them to demo the mics and be onsite to watch how it makes it better/worse. TT
 

hockeyref2

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Thanks! I was planning on testing it out on my own. I have one xpr3500e so i can easily switch modes and one non-NC RSM so I can check it out. I will have to look into the tuner software.
 

hockeyref2

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I did some testing the last 2 days. Found a bad Noise Cancelling RSM on my radio... on digital it sounded bad all the time (tinny/metallic). Anyways, in loud noise, comparing the PMMN4071a vs PMMN4073A with None, Basic, and Enhanced noise cancellation.... the non-NC rsm (PMMN4073A) with basic or no noise cancellation seemed to work the best. AGC enabled, RX audio leveling enabled. With the NC-RSM, audio sounded quiet to the receiving radio for ~ 1 second and then the volume would kick up. It also seemed like once the volume kicked up, it was almost like the gain was too high and there was a metallic quality to the audio, much harder to hear. Definitely had issues with noise cancelling RSM fighting the on-board noise cancelling, especially with Enhanced...

I will have to mess around with the gain, although thats a bit harder to change on the fly...

I don't have the tuner program so I cant tweak any settings. I will have to check with my dealer. Not sure what to do with intelligent audio... I am a fan of not blowing my eardrums out when i go from a loud area to a quiet area and not turning the volume down.... not sure if it hurts or helps in loud areas.
 

TampaTyron

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Leave intelligent audio off. It requires you to power radio up in quiet place or it keeps the radio at max volume all of the time. TT
 
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