North Bay Area Cap+ Rest Channel Find?

[kg6nlw]

I'm picking up a rest channel on 451.525 in/around the Northern Sonoma County area. Nothing in the DB lines up with that frequency in the area. The closest systems are TRBOWEST and Fisher Wireless, both locations that have that frequency are nowhere near me. Console Dump is below.

Can anyone else, possibly in the central Bay Area hear this? Based on an FCC ULS search it *MIGHT BE* Signature Wireless on Geyser Peak...

EDIT: The info DSD+ FastLane gives is Cap+ Site:1 DCC:1 NL: 4

Sync: no sync
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK Cap+ RestCh=1
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK Cap+ RestCh=1
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK Cap+ RestCh=1
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK Cap+ RestCh=1
Cap+ Site=1 RestCh=1
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK Cap+ RestCh=1
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK Cap+ RestCh=1
Sync: no sync
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK Cap+ RestCh=1
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK Cap+ RestCh=1
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK Cap+ RestCh=1
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK Cap+ RestCh=1
Cap+ Site=1 RestCh=1
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK Cap+ RestCh=1
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK Cap+ RestCh=1
Sync: no sync

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[kg6nlw]

I did just see this flash across the screen...

+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK [LB=1 CSBKO=59 (?) FID=10 v16=E10B id1=4501323 id2=0]
3B 10 E10B 44AF4B 000000
101110110001000011100001000010110100010010101111010010110000000000000000000000001001010011100101
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK [LB=1 CSBKO=59 (?) FID=10 v16=C109 id1=4456448 id2=0]
3B 10 C109 440000 000000
101110110001000011000001000010010100010000000000000000000000000000000000000000001011000001110000
Cap+ Site=1 RestCh=1
Sync: no sync
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK Cap+ RestCh=1
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK Cap+ RestCh=1
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK Cap+ RestCh=1
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK Cap+ RestCh=1
Cap+ Site=1 RestCh=1

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[Redoak]

Full bars on discone up 20 feet here in Hessel.

 

[kg6nlw]

@Redoak Rest or Control Channel data? What are you seeing?

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[kg6nlw]

This is the only license in a 50 mile radius that would match the strength @Redoak and myself are hearing... WQDH926 - SIGNATURE WIRELESS GROUP, INC. but last I checked Signature Wireless was IDAS/NXDN.

When I go through the frequencies associated with that license, 463.350 is associated as the only frequency I'm seeing active with the Sig. Wireless IDAS/NXDN Site 12 (Geyser Peak).

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[Redoak]

I just have a sds100 and am not too familiar with digital systems but you can see the display here:

http://sonomacounty.ddns.net:5001/

 

[kg6nlw]

Thanks, @Redoak, that matches with what I'm seeing/hearing via DSD+ as well...I guess I leave the laptop open overnight! Now to find the Control Channel...

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[sonm10]

Cap+ don't have a control channel.
Cap+ has rest channels, which act like control channels.
I don't know about your area, but around here, they rotate regularly, as in every few minutes.
I would scan the surrounding spectrum for additional channels and match them to your license.

 

[kg6nlw]

Thanks, I've seen Cap+ with control channels and without. I've had DSD+ going all night and it keeps saying REST CH.

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[scannerboy02]

Thanks, I've seen Cap+ with control channels and without. I've had DSD+ going all night and it keeps saying REST CH.

Regards,

-Frank C.

As was said above, the rest channel IS the 'control channel' in a Cap+ system. The rest channel will rotate to each frequency and time slot in the system, usually as traffic is heard. All radios in the system 'rest' on the rest channel and when a talk group becomes active the rest channel will become the traffic channel and all other radios will move to the new rest channel.

It is possible that it could be a single frequency Cap+ system, we have a few of those in the greater Cincinnati area, mostly at hospitals or small businesses. We do have one single frequency commercial Cap+ system that's not very active, used most by AMR Ambulance for backup communications.

 

[kg6nlw]

Yeah, I get that. It's just odd that the closest matches in the FCC ULS are to two other widely used systems in the area...It seems to be a single frequency system as there has been no loss of the signal in the last 12 hours on 451.525.

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[scannerboy02]

From some quick research I have found these possibilities.


KVW340 - CALIFORNIA METRO MOBILE COMMUNICATIONS, INC
Location 1 (Fixed - Site Status P)
arrow Frequencies (2)
MOUNT ALLISON
FREMONT, CA
ALAMEDA County
Coordinates 37-29-55.8 N, 121-52-19.8 W
Frequency Loc# Ant# Freq
ID Station
Class Emission
Designators
000451.52500000 1 1 2 FB6 11K2F3E, 7K60FXE, 7K60FXD
000490.21250000 1 1 1 FB6 11K2F3E, 7K60FXE, 7K60FXD
--------------------
WQDH926 - SIGNATURE WIRELESS GROUP, INC.
Location 1 (Fixed - Site Status P)
arrow Frequencies (13)
GEYSER PEAK
GEYSERVILLE, CA
SONOMA County
Coordinates 38-45-52.7 N, 122-50-42.0 W
Frequency Loc# Ant# Freq
ID Station
Class Emission
Designators
000451.52500000 1 2 1 FB8 11K2F3E, 11K2F2D
000452.15000000 1 2 2 FB6 11K2F3E, 11K2F2D
000452.62500000 1 1 1 FB8 11K2F3E, 11K2F2D
000452.72500000 1 1 2 FB6 11K2F3E, 11K2F2D
000452.75000000 1 1 3 FB6 11K2F3E, 11K2F2D
000461.02500000 1 1 4 FB6 11K2F3E, 11K2F2D
000461.51250000 1 1 8 FB8 4K00F1E, 4K00F1D
000461.78750000 1 1 7 FB8 4K00F1E, 4K00F1D
000461.81250000 1 1 9 FB8 4K00F1E, 4K00F1D
000461.85000000 1 1 5 FB6 11K2F3E, 11K2F2D
000463.35000000 1 2 4 FB8 4K00F1E, 4K00F1D
000464.08750000 1 1 10 FB8 4K00F1E, 4K00F1D
000464.77500000 1 1 6 FB6 11K2F3E, 11K2F2D
--------------------
WQCS257 - may, skipp s
Location 1 (Fixed - Site Status P)
arrow Frequencies (8)
MOUNT VACA
VACAVILLE, CA
SOLANO County
Coordinates 38-23-59.7 N, 122-06-27.9 W
Frequency Loc# Ant# Freq
ID Station
Class Emission
Designators
000451.12500000 1 1 6 FB6 11K2F3E
000451.52500000 1 1 7 FB6 11K2F3E
000452.61250000 1 1 5 FB6 11K2F3E
000461.72500000 1 1 8 FB6 11K2F3E
000461.78750000 1 1 4 FB6 11K2F3E
000463.27500000 1 1 1 FB6 11K2F3E
000463.47500000 1 1 2 FB6 11K2F3E
000463.93750000 1 1 3 FB6 11K2F3E
--------------------
WQOW553 - Gilroy Gardens Inc DBA Bonfante Gardens Inc
Location 1 (Fixed)
arrow Frequencies (6)
3050 Hecker Pass Hwy
Gilroy, CA
SANTA CLARA County
Coordinates 37-00-17.7 N, 121-37-39.2 W
Frequency Loc# Ant# Freq
ID Station
Class Emission
Designators
000451.30000000 1 1 2 FB2 11K2F3E
000451.52500000 1 1 1 FB2 11K2F3E
000461.88750000 1 1 3 FB2 11K2F3E
000463.56250000 1 1 4 FB2 11K2F3E
000463.78750000 1 1 5 FB2 11K2F3E
000464.78750000 1 1 6 FB2 11K2F3E
--------------------
WPMT290 - FISHER WIRELESS SERVICES INC
Location 1 (Fixed)
arrow Frequencies (36)
TOP BROADCASTING PASS RD SUTTER BUTTES T1
YUBA CITY, CA
SUTTER County
Coordinates 39-12-21.0 N, 121-49-15.0 W
Frequency Loc# Ant# Freq
ID Station
Class Emission
Designators
000451.17500000 1 2 1 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000451.27500000 1 2 2 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000451.52500000 1 2 3 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000451.77500000 1 2 4 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000451.85000000 1 2 5 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000451.90000000 1 2 6 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000452.10000000 1 2 7 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000452.15000000 1 2 8 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000452.40000000 1 2 9 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000452.45000000 1 2 10 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000452.67500000 1 2 11 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000453.00000000 1 2 12 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000461.22500000 1 2 13 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000461.25000000 1 2 14 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000461.35000000 1 2 15 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000461.40000000 1 2 16 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000461.65000000 1 2 17 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000461.67500000 1 2 18 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000461.72500000 1 2 19 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000461.77500000 1 2 20 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000461.85000000 1 2 21 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000462.22500000 1 2 22 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000462.52500000 1 2 23 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000463.27500000 1 2 24 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000463.30000000 1 2 25 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000463.40000000 1 2 26 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000463.85000000 1 2 27 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000463.87500000 1 2 28 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000463.95000000 1 2 29 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000464.02500000 1 2 30 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000464.07500000 1 2 31 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000464.10000000 1 2 32 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000464.25000000 1 2 33 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000464.27500000 1 2 34 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000464.57500000 1 2 35 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE
000464.65000000 1 2 36 FB6 11K0F9W, 7K60FXE


If I had to take a wild guess I would say maybe KVW340.

 

[kg6nlw]

WQDH926 - SIGNATURE WIRELESS GROUP, INC.

I narrowed it down to this as a possibility since that's the only both @Redoak and I can both hear together based on distance and mountaintops. The rest are too far out terrain-wise, especially for me, to hear this strong. YUBA and MAY SKIPP do come up as the other two possibilities within a 50 mile radius on the FCC ULS, but both would be outside the range of listening on UHF for both of us.

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[mcjones2013]

Metro Mobile has a wide-area Cap+ system in the Bay Area that so far hasn't been mapped out.

MMC MetroNet: Radio Airtime Service | Metromobile.com

 

[kg6nlw]

Metro Mobile has a wide-area Cap+ system in the Bay Area that so far hasn't been mapped out.

MMC MetroNet: Radio Airtime Service | Metromobile.com

Interesting. I'll have to go back to the FCC and look at their stuff. Thanks!

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[ECPD279]

If I may, I'll throw in a couple observations.

From the east bay I get absolutely nothing on 451.525. This leads me to doubt the Metro Mobile thoughts, because I can clearly receive other 100 watt transmitters from Mission Peak.

As for the Signature license, it does not appear this frequency is licensed for IDAS, and I can hear the Geyser Peak IDAS system, which I have never heard include this frequency. This license goes back to 2017, when Signature still operated an LTR system, and 451.525 may be a relic from the deprecated system.

I think your Cap+ site may, in fact, be the Signature Geyser Peak site, as you suspect. The frequency is not licensed for DMR use, but this hasn't stopped many other licensees from converting their 11K2 frequencies to DMR. Since it's only licensed for 25 watts, I wouldn't be likely to hear it from the east bay.

This would certainly be in line with what RFC Wireless does with many of their bay area sites, getting the licenses and maintaining the sites which are then leased to the end user for their sole use.

The only other viable alternate in your area that I can see is the Skipp May site on Mt Vaca that was mentioned earlier, but I should be able to hear that too if that was it. This makes me lean strongly on Geyser Peak.

Just curious, have you heard any traffic yet, or is it still just rest channel?

 

[kg6nlw]

Thank you for the insight. SO far when I have listened it's just been the rest channel. It might be a new channel to Signature Wireless on Geyser Peak then.

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[kg6nlw]

After long enough listening, it looks like I found some info just by staying on the REST Channel.

Regards,

-Frank C.

 

[sonm10]

Based on that screenshot, your guess is correct. All those frequencies belong to Signature Wireless.

 

[kg6nlw]

Based on that screenshot, your guess is correct. All those frequencies belong to Signature Wireless.

I had a hunch but it was @ECPD279 who nailed it down! Time to submit.

Regards,

-Frank C.