North Georgia GMRS linked systems

[DailyUser83]

Hello to all. I'm trying to put up a local GMRS repeater for my family and friends to use. All of the repeater frequencies are tied up by a pay only member group called North Georgia GMRS. I have listened to conversations and it's the same people and same conversations all the time and seems very cliquish. I looked at getting my ham license and it's also the same people, same voice's and same conversations on the local Ham frequencies. I feel stuck in between a rock and hard place. Who gives anyone the right for a group or individual to tie up the frequency pairs and force people to pay and utilize their system? Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated. I have tried every repeater pair and playing with both pl and dpl codes and their signals just stomp out my grandad's Motorola MTS repeater he gave me.The repeater is on a 180 foot tower in Alpharetta Georgia and has a refurbished commercial antenna with perfect swr and a commercial external duplexer. This is aggravating! The site owner hasn't charged us yet because of the problem. But it's $150 a month for the tower space rental. Expert advice is needed please!

 

[dmaria]

I don't know if it's possible, but you might look into a repeater coordinating body. Thee FCC looks at a coordinated repeater as being more legit in their eyes.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

There is no coordination of GMRS. Nor does FCC enforce any such thing.

You can put up your own repeater on a different tone code. Absolutely legal to do so. Be aware that you and the other repeater users, need to monitor the channel before transmitting so not to interfere with each other.

Or You could also save 150 bucks a month by subscribing to the other repeater and overlay your radios with DTMF muting so that your group does not have to listen to chatter.

 

[dmaria]

Never said they enforced it, but they have made it clear that will use that info to settle disputes.

§ 97.205 Repeater station.
(c) Where the transmissions of a repeater cause harmful interference to
another repeater, the two station licensees are equally and fully respon-
sible for resolving the interference unless the operation of one station is rec-
ommended by a frequency coordinator and the operation of the other station
is not. In that case, the licensee of the non-coordinated repeater has primary
responsibility to resolve the interference.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Never said they enforced it, but they have made it clear that will use that info to settle disputes.

§ 97.205 Repeater station.
(c) Where the transmissions of a repeater cause harmful interference to
another repeater, the two station licensees are equally and fully respon-
sible for resolving the interference unless the operation of one station is rec-
ommended by a frequency coordinator and the operation of the other station
is not. In that case, the licensee of the non-coordinated repeater has primary
responsibility to resolve the interference.

the rule is useless. GMRS is over 60-70 years old and no coordination. the current licensing system does not license by site, so no way to prove incumbency via that means.

 

[MTS2000des]

I have a repeater in midtown. I operate it respectfully and pursuant to GMRS rules meaning I (and other users) must monitor to ensure no one is using the frequency before keying up. It isn't linked so it can't cause interference and we aren't hogging all 8 pairs either.

How any linked system can maintain compliance with part 95 rules which clearly state all frequencies are shared and no one can have exclusive use has been a question I have asked for years. How can one effectively monitor ALL linked repeaters before transmitting over a wide area and ensure they aren't stepping on someone?

Put your repeater up. It is just as much your right to exercise your privileges as any other licensee. If they aren't following the rules, they should be held accountable.

 

[mmckenna]

Never said they enforced it, but they have made it clear that will use that info to settle disputes.

§ 97.205 Repeater station.

Part 97 covers amateur radio, not GMRS. Wrong rule part. You are confusing it with Part 95

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Part 97 covers amateur radio, not GMRS. Wrong rule part. You are confusing it with Part 95

good catch.. so often folks mix up the two services..

 

[mmckenna]

The solution is to use a different PL/DPL. You'll have to deal with sharing the frequency pair, that's the requirement of GMRS. If they are tying up all 8 pairs in your area, then they are either way over built, or your repeater has amazing coverage.

Same thing has happened out here. You just have to work with the limitations of GMRS. There's only 8 pairs, and large user groups like this can tie them up.

Other option is to coordinate a Part 90 frequency as a commercial venture where you 'sell' service to your other users. Other users pay their share of that $150.00, but that might get into some legal grey areas.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

§ 95.359 Sharing of channels.

Unless otherwise provided in the subparts governing the individual services, all channels designated for use in the Personal Radio Services are available for use on a shared basis, and are not assigned by the FCC for the exclusive use of any person or station. Operators of Personal Radio Service stations must cooperate in the selection and use of channels in order to avoid interference and make efficient use of these shared channels.

 

[DailyUser83]

I appreciate everybody's input. Looks like I have no option but to join and pay the yearly fee or give up. I will not be joining, it's total hogging in my book. Who wants to support or represent a group who behaves in this fashion or manner? This is wrong in so many ways. I appreciate y'all's help and efforts. There website has a boatload of repeaters listed that are sitting at scary high elevations. 90 percent are linked and the few that aren't will be linked soon! 👎

 

[mmckenna]

I appreciate everybody's input. Looks like I have no option but to join and pay the yearly fee or give up. I will not be joining, it's total hogging in my book. Who wants to support or represent a group who behaves in this fashion or manner? This is wrong in so many ways. I appreciate y'all's help and efforts. There website has a boatload of repeaters listed that are sitting at scary high elevations. 90 percent are linked and the few that aren't will be linked soon! 👎

I agree, and it is an irresponsible use of a limited resource.
Unfortunately, the FCC rules don't prohibit it.

 

[MTS2000des]

I appreciate everybody's input. Looks like I have no option but to join and pay the yearly fee or give up. I will not be joining, it's total hogging in my book. Who wants to support or represent a group who behaves in this fashion or manner? This is wrong in so many ways. I appreciate y'all's help and efforts. There website has a boatload of repeaters listed that are sitting at scary high elevations. 90 percent are linked and the few that aren't will be linked soon! 👎

You can always put your repeater up and use the same PL combo. Everyone has to share. If they don't like it, they can disable their repeater, but at the end of the day, you have just as much authority to use those frequencies as authorized under 95.359 and everyone has to follow the rules.

No obligation to join any organization or pay anything is required and under part 95 rules, so long as you aren't intentionally interfering, they cannot lawfully stop you from transmitting on those frequencies.

Shared means for everyone. If one wants to operate a private, closed system and charge money for it, that is what part 90 SMRs are for.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

"If one wants to operate a private, closed system and charge money for it.."

Actually that IS expressly permitted in GMRS part 95 ...

47 CFR § 95.1705 - Individual licenses required; eligibility; who may operate; cooperative use.

(f) Cooperative use of GMRS stations. GMRS licensees may share the use of their stations with other persons eligible in the GMRS, subject to the conditions and limitations in this paragraph.

(1) The GMRS station to be shared must be individually owned by the licensee, jointly owned by the participants and the licensee, leased individually by the licensee, or leased jointly by the participants and the licensee.

(2) The licensee must maintain access to and control over all stations authorized under its license.

(3) A station may be shared only:

(i) Without charge;

(ii) On a non-profit basis, with contributions to capital and operating expenses including the cost of mobile stations and paging receivers prorated equitably among all participants; or

(iii) On a reciprocal basis, i.e., use of one licensee's stations for the use of another licensee's stations without charge for either capital or operating expenses.

(4) All sharing arrangements must be conducted in accordance with a written agreement to be kept as part of the station records.

 

[MTS2000des]

But no one can claim exclusive use of any frequency, and if someone wants to use a repeater without paying, what can you do to stop them? Unlike other radio services (even part 97) which allow a repeater/system owner to ban someone, the FCC rule for part 95 says everyone has to share. All they can do is disable their repeater. They can't legally interfere with someone using the frequencies either.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

But no one can claim exclusive use of any frequency, and if someone wants to use a repeater without paying, what can you do to stop them? Unlike other radio services (even part 97) which allow a repeater/system owner to ban someone, the FCC rule for part 95 says everyone has to share. All they can do is disable their repeater. They can't legally interfere with someone using the frequencies either.

A quote from your post #13 above:

"You can always put your repeater up and use the same PL combo. Everyone has to share. If they don't like it, they can disable their repeater, but at the end of the day, you have just as much authority to use those frequencies as authorized under 95.359 and everyone has to follow the rules. ".

You are suggesting intentional interference which in my opinion denies you any high ground in this discussion.

The OP can certainly construct his own repeater on any of the 8 pairs and SHOULD use a different tone pair. The N GA GMRS cooperative can pick and choose who belongs to their cooperative and deny service to anyone they wish. You cannot use ANYONES repeater without permission. Once an interloper causes their electric meter to react, they are potentially trespassing.

 

[DailyUser83]

The rules by the FCC are not in question RFI EMI Guy, I came here for answers and solutions. Who gives any person or group the right to tie up all the frequency pairs with linked systems and wide coverages? I'm here to solve the problems. Why can't this group only link 2-3 repeaters in North Georgia? The repeaters on 462.625 (Blue Ridge) and 462.675 (flagship) covers well into Atlanta all the way to North Carolina, South Carolina, Eastern Tennessee and Alabama. Unlink the other 5-6 and let it ride.

I spent money just like the next guy only to get the short end by individuals who wish and very apparently, monopolize the frequency pairs (very UN-AMERICAN) in my opinion! They are not offering freedom of choice. They appear to be the only choice and option. And if you want to use the frequencies, you have to pay the club to use them. Thanks again for everybody's help. I didn't realize this was going to be this complicated and tiring.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Looky here, alls you gotta do is ask... Membership is far cheaper than cable TV bill.

"The North Georgia GMRS Network is located in and around North Georgia from Chattanooga, Tn. to Columbus, Ga. and areas in North Carolina. The Repeater System is “open” to all licensed GMRS users and is generally accessed by using a CTCSS tone.

All interested licensees who wish to use the system repeaters are required to obtain “permission” prior to using the repeater(s).

Contact Gary at Gary@NorthGeorgiagmrs.com or register for Membership. "

North Georgia GMRS

nggmrs.org

 

[DailyUser83]

I want to put up my own repeater for my family and friends, respect the rules and not cause interference? As MTS 2000 stated I have just as much of a right under my license to operate a station as you do. I guess you were here first so that makes you entitled to the frequencies? I will not put up a station because I will interfere with yours. And I'm not that type of person who wants get into a p*ssing contest. So I get your point. Do you get mine? You can sleep good tonight knowing you won the battle. I'm throwing in the towel and no thanks on the membership. Super tacky BTW putting an advertising spot on a public forum. My grandad was right.

 

[tweiss3]

I want to put up my own repeater for my family and friends, respect the rules and not cause interference?

You can still do this. Neither you nor the other group will need to use the frequency 100% of the time. This is one of the reasons the monitor button exists. Put up a repeater in a location that works for you. Use a different tone, or set of split tones, perhaps DCS instead of a tone, and use it. When you need to key up, hit monitor, make sure the frequency isn't in use, then make your transmission. Using and output tone, you won't hear the N-GA group, and just know that there may be some overlap and at times you may have an issue getting in when they are ragchewing.