Northern KY regional radio system update

scannerboy02

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Correct, you need to program each site into a P25 trunked system. You could also just lock-out (avoid) the active control channels as they will not have voice traffic on them.
 

scannerboy02

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It looks like new amended applications have been submitted. They were requested to submit an RPC approval letter from region 17 (Indiana) and they have now included that letter.

Of note, they still only have 4 frequencies for Campbell County (even though the control channel is advertising frequencies not on the application) and they only have the P25 TDMA emission designator (9K80D7W) for the frequencies. Most systems also include a Phase I designator being that the control channel is always Phase I and the system should be capable of reverting automatically to Phase I if it is keeping with the P25 standards.

Another note, they are already transmitting on frequencies that they have not yet been licensed for.
 

Newt182

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I have a BCD396XT so I assume I'm going to need a new scanner once they switch to the new system. Any recommendations? I'm in Boone County and really only interested in picking up Boone county.
 

scannerboy02

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I have a BCD396XT so I assume I'm going to need a new scanner once they switch to the new system. Any recommendations? I'm in Boone County and really only interested in picking up Boone county.
Yes, you will need a new scanner.

Any of the scanner on this page will work with the new system.

I would recommend the SDS100 or the BCD436HP as they seem to handle the P25 simulcast systems the best.
 

wa8pyr

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It looks like new amended applications have been submitted. They were requested to submit an RPC approval letter from region 17 (Indiana) and they have now included that letter.

Of note, they still only have 4 frequencies for Campbell County (even though the control channel is advertising frequencies not on the application) and they only have the P25 TDMA emission designator (9K80D7W) for the frequencies. Most systems also include a Phase I designator being that the control channel is always Phase I and the system should be capable of reverting automatically to Phase I if it is keeping with the P25 standards.

Another note, they are already transmitting on frequencies that they have not yet been licensed for.
What are they trying to do here? Just wing it?
They may be operating under a blanket authorization from the APCO Regional Planning Committee and/or FCC until they identify the frequencies which work best in that particular location. Ohio MARCS built out their system the same way, although being a statewide system they had a license which covered the entire state. Didn't really cause any problems at the scanning end, as the control channels were licensed.
 

milf

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And as to the statement about any P25 system having to have FDMA use to be compliant... NOPE. Phase II is a standard all its own. You can go pure TDMA from the rip and not ever have any need for FDMA on any part of it. If you have need of interop with another system that is FDMA, or analog, you set up patching, or ISSI linkage. There is no part of anything saying that you must use a DDM set up to meet any part of any standard.
 

scannerboy02

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And as to the statement about any P25 system having to have FDMA use to be compliant... NOPE. Phase II is a standard all its own. You can go pure TDMA from the rip and not ever have any need for FDMA on any part of it. If you have need of interop with another system that is FDMA, or analog, you set up patching, or ISSI linkage. There is no part of anything saying that you must use a DDM set up to meet any part of any standard.
I will need to reread my TIA documents. I thought automatic 'fallback' to Phase I (FDMA) was a requirement of the Phase II (TDMA) standards. Also, the control channel is operating FDMA (I also though this was a Phase II requirement) and they are already transmitting data on the system in FDMA mode.

The FCC applications were returned today so it looks like more delays.
 

wa8pyr

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I will need to reread my TIA documents. I thought automatic 'fallback' to Phase I (FDMA) was a requirement of the Phase II (TDMA) standards. Also, the control channel is operating FDMA (I also though this was a Phase II requirement) and they are already transmitting data on the system in FDMA mode.

The FCC applications were returned today so it looks like more delays.
The control channel does transmit in Phase I which is part of the standard, and evidently it doesn't require that the license include FDMA emissions. As far as automatic fallback, I don't believe that's a requirement or part of the standard, just a handy feature of Motorola systems. If all the users are on TDMA and FDMA isn't required there's no need to have it on the license.

Of course, that doesn't take into account any interoperability or mutual aid radios on the Ohio or Indiana sides which may not be capable of Phase II. Patching is an extremely limited and imperfect solution at best.

I'll check with a couple of the APCO licensing gurus up here; it's possible that FDMA is grandfathered in when licensed for TDMA and FDMA is only a fallback.
 

milf

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Tom, there is also ISSI linking that can be done. FDMA on the SAFE-T and MARCS-ip sides and TDMA on NKYRRS
 

wa8pyr

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Tom, there is also ISSI linking that can be done. FDMA on the SAFE-T and MARCS-ip sides and TDMA on NKYRRS
I know about ISSI, but it's not going to happen on the MARCS end unless someone else pays for it. Been down that road already. It's better than patching but is also an imperfect solution (there are limitations based on the number of talk paths). It would seem silly, though, to run a signal from the NKY system all the way to the zone controller, through the ISSI switch and back down to Cincinnati so that two radios feet apart on the same incident scene could talk to one another.

Hopefully the new NKY system does have Phase I fallback, but if not I'm thinking the 7FIRE, 7EMS and 7LAW direct frequencies may get some use down yonder.

I did get the word from our APCO licensing coordinator that if a system is running FDMA it should have FDMA on the license.
 
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scannerboy02

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Thank you both for the information and investigation.

I have been told that MARCS is no longer allowing new ISSI connections and that the new NKY system was not going to have that capability, at least with Ohio.

The documents I have seen for the NKY system do include Dynamic Dual Mode. I know we really can't judge the final operation of the system based on what's happening right now but I am currently seeing A LOT of data being transmitted in FDMA mode on the traffic channels.
 

KyFireFreak

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I was told recently that the system probably will not go online until middle of next year at this point. There is an upgrade at one of the dispatch centers that needs to happen now, licensing issue with one of the towers, and the failure of one county to score a grant to buy the radios are all going to hold things up for a while now.

In the last two weeks or so I have not heard a peep out of the system...
 

scannerboy02

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Has anyone seen any activity on the system in the past month or so?

I have noticed a few radio affiliations from time to time and a good amount of data traffic off Boone County but other than that nothing. Unfortunately I am only able to get a clear decode of the Boone County site from my home. The Kenton County site comes in and out and I can't get Campbell County at all.

Also, they still have two applications in returned status, needing a RPC letter from Region 33.

I know Motorola usually works extra payments into the contracts in the event of delays not caused by Motorola. Anyone happen to know if these delays are adding to the cost of the project?
 

KyFireFreak

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I heard recently that they will do final testing and tuning now after spring starts and leaves are back on the trees. They are still allegedly working on licensing issues on one tower as well.

I have not heard any voice on the system in quite some time.
 

scannerboy02

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Surprisingly, I heard a good amount of "radio test" around 4:30pm yesterday on TG:10105 coming off the Campbell County site.
 
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