NX5000 P25 Conventional

[tweiss3]

I'm sure I am missing something simple. I was bench testing before I get too deep into installation. NX5300 to NX5800, identical programming. P25 conventional, no TG, both directions the receiving radio acknowledges the call, but won't unmute without pressing monitor. Is this a "feature" to keep feedback down when jumping in and out of the car so you don't have to turn volume down/up? Is there a setting so that I can receive my own ID? This only happens in P25, not in DMR or NXDN when tested.

I suppose I could make another system just for this instance with a different ID, but I was trying to avoid that route, and ran out of time the past 2 nights to try that.

 

[jeepsandradios]

Are both radios using the same Astro ID ? They need to be different.

 

[tweiss3]

Are both radios using the same Astro ID ? They need to be different.

Correct, same ID. So I guess my only workaround is make a new system on one of the radios just for this.

 

[jeepsandradios]

Just change the ID on one radio. Should not require a new system.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

TIL: On NX radios the ID's can't be duplicated for conventional operation. Will have to test this on Viking radios now...

 

[DeoVindice]

TIL: On NX radios the ID's can't be duplicated for conventional operation. Will have to test this on Viking radios now...

No issue on Viking radios. Armada will flag it but allow the codeplug write and the radios operate normally.

I vaguely recall a setting related to this in PCConfigure, there may be some control over the behavior in KPG-whatever.

 

[WB5UOM]

Actually in the recent firmware KW followed EFJ lead on now requiring ID useage on P25 Conv.
if you dont then you will get a green led but audio wont unmute.
Im at home and cant recite the version but have voiced my complaint with KW.
as with many agencies with fleets of TK5xxx and no desire to use ID's...
it is a issue. You have to roll back to I think ver 4.52 to get it to work as before.
The hope is to get a checkbox in the software so YOU can pick as to mute on ID or not.
Ive already had to roll back several

 

[Project25_MASTR]

What are you having to roll back? TK-5000's or NX-5000's?

 

[WB5UOM]

Sorry- I can see where that might be confusing- its the NX5xxx with newest FW that is requiring unit ID to be used or else if a unit with same ID (or same no ID) is on same channel the new NX will not open up the audio.

Its a Cluster in my opinion when you have several neighbor Counties using P25 conventional and never used IDs or even if 1 or 2 do- they dont coordinate that info with anyone so it will likely be a mess before it is over.
I love KENWOOD but sometimes that engineer doesnt know how the real world works

 

[WB5UOM]

So you have to roll back the FW to 4.52 to have it function as before.
and hopefully they will add a checkbox in software to let those in the field let it work the way it needs to work

 

[tweiss3]

Interesting, FW is 5.00 on both NX-5800 and NX-5300. If I remember correctly, I was hearing off-hook decode on the 5800 without hitting the monitor button. It would not work the other way around on the 5300 without touching the monitor button.

Workaround for this testing was to change the zone to another P25 conventional system with a bogus ID. Not a big deal for the testing I was doing, but for a large fleet, I would imagine this would be tough.

 

[Echo4Thirty]

Tons of conventional agencies just use ID:1 on their radios, what a short sighted decision to disallow the radio to unmute.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Tons of conventional agencies just use ID:1 on their radios, what a short sighted decision to disallow the radio to unmute.

It's actually a brilliant idea. Completely eliminates the feedback mind F when you are sitting in the presence of both your mobile and portable and the transmitted audio is received and played back to you out of phase assuming your ID map has your mobile and portable using the same ID. If someone were manufacturing a simplex P25 repeater...it would also eliminate the message originator hearing their transmission after they sent the message.

 

[wd8chl]

Someone asked about "Astro ID". That's a motorola term. Do you mean talkgroup? Or radio ID/unit ID?

Talkgroup must be the same for every radio to talk to each other. It will normally default to 1 on a new program.
Radio ID's are normally different on a trunked system, due to the way the system keeps track of radios, especially on a multi-site system.
But on a conventional channel, it won't affect usage. Most dept's on P25 conv here just use 1 for everything because that way they don't have to keep track of it, and have to call in the service shop just to move a radio from one car to another if one goes bad.

So if radios aren't unmuting, one of those is set wrong. There's no function that would mute a radio under the conditions you're talking about.

 

[AJ1L]

I know that Viking VM/VP (EFJ) radios require the transmitting station to be on the same TG on P25 in order to receive audio. I just ran into an issue with a motorola console unknowingly transmitting with the TG of 1001. At first I had to program the VM/VP radios to TG 65535 (All Call) in order to hear the console on 1001 and other motorola radios on TG 1. Then I found out that the 65535 TG was screwing up the motorola console, so had to set the TG to 1, and check the "digital squelch" box to allow it to be basically CSQ on P25.

As far as I know, NX radios have not required the TG to be the same in order to receive P25 conventional. I hope this wasn't changed. If so, what would be the reason for the change?

I've never run into an issue where the radio ID made a difference on any brand of radio.

 

[wd8chl]

Under normal circumstances, it has always been required the TG to be the same, regardless of digital format. That's universal. The parameters you're talking about are virtually never used.
I would say if the console and all the other radios in that system are set to TG 1001, then you need to be set that way as well. If the console is different than the radios, then it needs to be fixed.

 

[WB5UOM]

We are talking about radio ID only
Yes it is now an issue on KW and VIKING

 

[otobmark]

Under normal circumstances, it has always been required the TG to be the same, regardless of digital format. That's universal.

What about a radio with NO TG selected/used? My APX and KW NX radios allows conventional P25 channels without a TG. Now the EFJ VP requires that I select a TG. I would like the option to NOT use a TG on my Viking for compatibility with other radios not using TG's. Is the work around to use FFFF TG on Viking? Will it open all other radios on TX as well as receive any TG or lack of TG from other radios on receive?
I vaguely remember reading somewhere that when moto radios have no TG selected that they actually use a default TG of FFFF.
I know I can check digital squelch box on VP to receive any digital traffic regardless of TG or NAC which is ok usually but sometimes having NAC controlled squelch is needed.

 

[BigLebowski]

All P25 radios transmit a talkgroup, the talkgroup is irrelevant unless you are using selective squelch.

For example.. we have to program Harris radios to transmit various talkgroups tied to different encryption keys if we need to mix different keys within a system.

It is transparent to the receiving radio UNLESS that radio is programmed for selective squelch where only X talkgroup is received.

 

[otobmark]

Got It…
I posted a question about how to do it channel by channel on VP8000 the way I do on Motorola. Not looking good.
Thanks again for the help.