NX5K DMR trouble with some repeaters

[tweiss3]

Ok, so I've just started paying more attention to DMR again in the area (amateur use). I can make connection with a few repeaters, but a few have me stumped.

Trouble Repeater 1: It is an TKR-850 with a PiStar controller. I get a good ping back on the meter, but call fails, and never shows up.
Trouble Repeater 2: Hytera RD982 on Brandmeister. I have no issues with Mototrbo radios on this repeater.
There are more, but these are the two I can check both at work and at home.

I have no issues with my hotspot, and other MMDVM based repeaters.

I have disabled the following with no help:
1) Disable OTAA
2) Disabled Call Alert Inhibit
3) Disabled Open Voice Channel Mode

I can't seem to find anything else that could possibly cause an issue. Any help will be appreciated. I have confirmed Dual Slot Direct Mode is disabled on all programming.

 

[otobmark]

Often mmdvm repeaters are not set to spec. NX5000 are not fault tolerant of out of spec signals. Most likely the repeaters are too wide either in modulation or pulse width. The same with P25. The Hytera should be ok. The NX5000 is set for current legal digital standards and isn’t forgiving. My opinion is that they should be more forgiving like Motorola. What usually happens is that others hear you but you don’t hear them. My symptoms were drop out on receive. The fact that your call never shows up (on a dashboard?) is surprising and weakens my argument. Maybe the NX is out adjustment. When desperate I go back to last working codeplug if there is one, or create a simple new one to test. Might need to update firmware as well.

 

[tweiss3]

I'm currently on 5.10.00 on both 5800 and 5300. #1 responds to the ping, but it isn't acknowledged by the NX radios, thus the failed call. Its frustrating because I have an SL7550 and XPR7550 sitting next to me and both "work" on this repeater.

The Hytra is working now, appears to be a mixed issue between its connection status and a CC changed in the programming (I probably bumped it in review).

Now that you say it could be something about being too wide, I wonder if that may be it. It's interesting that two repeaters not farther away run the same controller, but use two CM300 radios, work just fine. I may have to send off an email to the maintainer of this repeater and see if I can work through it with him.

 

[otobmark]

In general, I believe Kenwood should loosen up their radios. Motorola does and I don't think it hurts their performance. I'm not a mmdvm programmer but I believe they have a wide range of adjustments that most probably don't even know what they are or should be. mmdvm is software emulating the vocoder as opposed to having an actual vocoder chip (Transcript ??). On a P25 system I had trouble with was running dual mode and trying to keep the FM as wide as possible. They were using the Quantar wide pulse setting (early attempt to increase range by M) and wider than 2.5khz modulation. Kenwoods are for modern commercial repeaters and radios which they are optimized for but I think it would have been strategic for them to have not been so tight on receiver specs. There is probably a mmdvm forum where you could ask some questions about setup. It can be done right apparently.

 

[tweiss3]

In general, I believe Kenwood should loosen up their radios. Motorola does and I don't think it hurts their performance. I'm not a mmdvm programmer but I believe they have a wide range of adjustments that most probably don't even know what they are or should be. mmdvm is software emulating the vocoder as opposed to having an actual vocoder chip (Transcript ??). On a P25 system I had trouble with was running dual mode and trying to keep the FM as wide as possible. They were using the Quantar wide pulse setting (early attempt to increase range by M) and wider than 2.5khz modulation. Kenwoods are for modern commercial repeaters and radios which they are optimized for but I think it would have been strategic for them to have not been so tight on receiver specs. There is probably a mmdvm forum where you could ask some questions about setup. It can be done right apparently.

This is interesting to hear. The email back indicated that only 2 weeks ago, the TKR-850 that was being used completely died, and a temporary one has been relocated from the analog workbench without adjusting or checking it. It is likely off frequency slightly. I'm interested to see if the new replacement has the same issue or not.

 

[tweiss3]

I have answers. The temporary repeater hardware was replaced and aligned. I am now able to use DMR on that repeater. I was told the one used for temporary use was pretty far off, but I have no idea how far it was off. There were zero issues with OTA or other settings. I will still have to deal with other repeaters that may or may not need alignment, but its a pretty funny litmus test.