NX96 UID Display Bug??

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kruser

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Hi,

I've been monitoring a nearby NXDN 9600 baud system. It uses a single UHF frequency.
If I program this as a conventional digital channel, the radio will never display any info, mainly the UID is what I'm after. The radio sysadmins programmed several of the radios to send custom UIDs when they talk. Things like Dispatch etc.

I set this freq as a digital only for audio and the squelch I'll either try RAN Search or actually enter the actual RAN of 4. It does not seem to matter as it will never display the UID or RID on the scanners display or any external programs like ProScan.

I'm trying the same things on a 436HP, 536HP and an SDS100 but all have the same results.

As an experiment, I added this single frequency as a NXDN One Frequency in a new favorite list.
This allows the UID or RID to be displayed as I'd like but this is the odd part, none of the radios mentioned above will even stop on the signal when it is active even when is ID Search Mode. In order to hear the audio when they talk in NXDN one freq mode, I must first simply do a channel Hold on any of the test talkgroups I've added in this FL and then any of the models listed above will stop on the frequency when it is active AND display the UID! The Bug is the fact I must first do a Channel Hold on any TG I've added for the system. It does not matter if it is a real TG or not, just Channel Hold and release that hold after you power the radio on and it will pickup the talk on this NX96 frequency when they talk plus display the UID or any Alias UID if programmed by the sysadmins for the users.

Or... is the bug in the fact that when I set this up in conventional mode with Digital Audio Only, it does not display any UID info at all when they talk?

I don't know which is what I'd consider a bug as I guess I'm not really sure if this single NX96 frequency should even be setup as a NXDN One Freq type system or as a simple Conventional channel but with Digital Audio only. Regardless, there seems to be a bug here somewhere unless there is something really odd about the way the users radios are programmed. I have no idea what kind of radios they even use. This is also not listed in the DB here yet so it's no help.

DSDPlus simply shows it as a NEXEDGE9600 CB RAN:4 signal when they talk. DSDPlus shows the Alias assigned as well if one exists otherwise it just shows the numeric RID.
It does not show any other info.

On the Uniden's above, when I set this up as a digital only conventional channel, it shows all zero's for all info fields that will often populate in the display when other types of digital signals come on the air when a freq is setup as digital only on conventional mode. Not for this NX96 freq though.

At least I did find out I can monitor the freq plus see the UIDs or Alias's as long as I remember to first Hold on any talkgroup first before letting the radio scan or search this system along with any others I may turn on.

Am I doing something wrong that I've overlooked maybe?
 

werinshades

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Hi,

I've been monitoring a nearby NXDN 9600 baud system. It uses a single UHF frequency.
If I program this as a conventional digital channel, the radio will never display any info, mainly the UID is what I'm after. The radio sysadmins programmed several of the radios to send custom UIDs when they talk. Things like Dispatch etc.

I set this freq as a digital only for audio and the squelch I'll either try RAN Search or actually enter the actual RAN of 4. It does not seem to matter as it will never display the UID or RID on the scanners display or any external programs like ProScan.

I'm trying the same things on a 436HP, 536HP and an SDS100 but all have the same results.

As an experiment, I added this single frequency as a NXDN One Frequency in a new favorite list.
This allows the UID or RID to be displayed as I'd like but this is the odd part, none of the radios mentioned above will even stop on the signal when it is active even when is ID Search Mode. In order to hear the audio when they talk in NXDN one freq mode, I must first simply do a channel Hold on any of the test talkgroups I've added in this FL and then any of the models listed above will stop on the frequency when it is active AND display the UID! The Bug is the fact I must first do a Channel Hold on any TG I've added for the system. It does not matter if it is a real TG or not, just Channel Hold and release that hold after you power the radio on and it will pickup the talk on this NX96 frequency when they talk plus display the UID or any Alias UID if programmed by the sysadmins for the users.

Or... is the bug in the fact that when I set this up in conventional mode with Digital Audio Only, it does not display any UID info at all when they talk?

I don't know which is what I'd consider a bug as I guess I'm not really sure if this single NX96 frequency should even be setup as a NXDN One Freq type system or as a simple Conventional channel but with Digital Audio only. Regardless, there seems to be a bug here somewhere unless there is something really odd about the way the users radios are programmed. I have no idea what kind of radios they even use. This is also not listed in the DB here yet so it's no help.

DSDPlus simply shows it as a NEXEDGE9600 CB RAN:4 signal when they talk. DSDPlus shows the Alias assigned as well if one exists otherwise it just shows the numeric RID.
It does not show any other info.

On the Uniden's above, when I set this up as a digital only conventional channel, it shows all zero's for all info fields that will often populate in the display when other types of digital signals come on the air when a freq is setup as digital only on conventional mode. Not for this NX96 freq though.

At least I did find out I can monitor the freq plus see the UIDs or Alias's as long as I remember to first Hold on any talkgroup first before letting the radio scan or search this system along with any others I may turn on.

Am I doing something wrong that I've overlooked maybe?


I posted on a similar issue back in November, not sure if it's related:

https://forums.radioreference.com/t...ency-vs-conventional-nxdn-programming.379908/
 

kruser

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I posted on a similar issue back in November, not sure if it's related:

https://forums.radioreference.com/t...ency-vs-conventional-nxdn-programming.379908/

Thanks for the link to your thread! I knew I'd read it before but I sure could not find it.
I'm going to say the problem is the same as what you saw. I'd also noticed the TG 0 thing before posting about this. Still not sure if that has anything to do with it though. I also have a TRX-2 and it will not even allow a TG of 0, it changes it to a Wildcard on NXDN systems if you set up a single channel repeater as a trunked system in the Whistler. The Whistler also displays the numeric UID only regardless if the NXDN frequency is setup as conventional or trunked NXDN but my TRX-2 has never displayed any Alias IDs. I suspect they are simply not capable of Alias ID display.

Since I posted about this earlier this morning, I have found that my SDS100 will display the UID when the NXDN freq is setup as conventional. The SDS100 will only display the numeric UID though, no Alias's are decoded or displayed. ProScan also does not log the UID that the SDS100 will display when this system is setup as Conventional in the SDS but that's probably a bug in ProScan which I'll work on later. None of my x36HP models will display any UID info at all when this single frequency NXDN system is setup as a conventional system, only the SDS100 will.
For me, the SDS100 actually does a better job at not missing decodes when this NXDN channel is set to NXDN One Freq system. The x36 models miss a lot more. I don't think signal level is an issue as this repeater booms in here with RSSI values in the low 400's on the x36HP's and the SDS100 always shows a false level of -40 dbm. The signal is basically above S9 when watched with an Icom r9000.
I also have an Icom R8600 that decodes this repeater just fine but it will not display any Alias ID's, only the real numeric ID. The 8600 does not miss a single transmission though unlike the Uniden's when setup as a NXDN OFT system.

I did not realize this problem has existed for so long until you posted your link.
Hopefully Uniden will pick this up again and look into the problems with OFT systems, especially NXDN which does seem to be much worse than DMR or P25. I can't really speak of P25 OFT systems as we no longer have any here but I do have plenty of DMR systems setup as DMR OFT systems and they all seem to decode just fine.
I guess the good thing is when setup as conventional, listening to the system is then very reliable, you just lose the ability to display UIDs which is a nice feature to have when they have programmed most radio's with an Alias ID.
It seems Uniden just can't get all the little bugs worked out!
 

werinshades

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Thanks for the link to your thread! I knew I'd read it before but I sure could not find it.
I'm going to say the problem is the same as what you saw. I'd also noticed the TG 0 thing before posting about this. Still not sure if that has anything to do with it though. I also have a TRX-2 and it will not even allow a TG of 0, it changes it to a Wildcard on NXDN systems if you set up a single channel repeater as a trunked system in the Whistler. The Whistler also displays the numeric UID only regardless if the NXDN frequency is setup as conventional or trunked NXDN but my TRX-2 has never displayed any Alias IDs. I suspect they are simply not capable of Alias ID display.

Since I posted about this earlier this morning, I have found that my SDS100 will display the UID when the NXDN freq is setup as conventional. The SDS100 will only display the numeric UID though, no Alias's are decoded or displayed. ProScan also does not log the UID that the SDS100 will display when this system is setup as Conventional in the SDS but that's probably a bug in ProScan which I'll work on later. None of my x36HP models will display any UID info at all when this single frequency NXDN system is setup as a conventional system, only the SDS100 will.
For me, the SDS100 actually does a better job at not missing decodes when this NXDN channel is set to NXDN One Freq system. The x36 models miss a lot more. I don't think signal level is an issue as this repeater booms in here with RSSI values in the low 400's on the x36HP's and the SDS100 always shows a false level of -40 dbm. The signal is basically above S9 when watched with an Icom r9000.
I also have an Icom R8600 that decodes this repeater just fine but it will not display any Alias ID's, only the real numeric ID. The 8600 does not miss a single transmission though unlike the Uniden's when setup as a NXDN OFT system.

I did not realize this problem has existed for so long until you posted your link.
Hopefully Uniden will pick this up again and look into the problems with OFT systems, especially NXDN which does seem to be much worse than DMR or P25. I can't really speak of P25 OFT systems as we no longer have any here but I do have plenty of DMR systems setup as DMR OFT systems and they all seem to decode just fine.
I guess the good thing is when setup as conventional, listening to the system is then very reliable, you just lose the ability to display UIDs which is a nice feature to have when they have programmed most radio's with an Alias ID.
It seems Uniden just can't get all the little bugs worked out!

Keep in mind Whistler doesn't "trunk track" MotoTRBO or NXDN Trunking systems, but scans the frequencies and if you're monitoring a large system, are more likely to miss transmissions/replies.

The other thing that gets pointed out is the SDS's are more likely to not receive "marginal" digital signals unlike the x36hp series due to interference in the bands. That's the case here as some of these systems that are problematic are 1-2 signal bars on my 536hp and it decodes better than the SDS series. On my SDS100, I had to park 4 blocks away to receive a NXDN One Frequency Trunk system in the 461mhz range while from home, less than a mile away, no decoding on the SDS200 with outdoor antenna, and nothing on the SDS100 after all filter settings were applied. Granted, this was an airport rental car operations and not very exciting, but for those that might have public safety in this range, could be problematic.

Single Frequency DMR is not a problem here either.
 

kruser

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Yep, in this case the Whistler actually works well being this is just a single frequency NXDN signal, no trunking needed! It's really about all I use the Whistler models for that I own. I've been scanning the RR channels for NXDN signals here but not a peep other than a few short tests on an unused road channel maybe a year ago. I just let it scan away and log anything to Whistler's control program demo they released a long time back. It's not had any NXDN hits in ages though.

I was actually surprised when I found my SDS100 worked better for this NXDN OFT bug. Mine is also swamped with signal problems mainly in the 450 to 470 MHz range of the UHF band. Filters worked well for VHF and 700+ MHz ranges. The mentioned UHF range on the other hand have been hard to tame with any amount of filter settings. I can usually get lucky and find a filter setting that does allow it to work for most UHF frequencies though. It's finicky though and not really a lot of fun trying all the combinations.
I do hope Uniden can come up with a quick way to get in and adjust filters for all types of systems. Much like you can change the IFX setting very easy. If filters could be changed just as easily, finding the correct filter combo would not be near as much of a chore.
As it is now, I'll probably wear out the keypad on this SDS100 from going into the menus so deep just to change a darn filter setting!

Oh, I also had tried using FM mode on this NXDN OFT system. That did seem to help for the x36HP models. I don't recall if that was a suggestion in your old thread or something else I'd read today but I'd tried that before ever making my post and it did help. I forgot to mention that in my post this morning. The use of FM verse NFM does not seem to make any difference on my Icom R8600 or the Whistler TRX-2. They both decode 100% (or very near it) regardless of the radios bandwidth setting.
I use an older Icom R2500 for my receiver for DSDPlus. I can often reduce or eliminate errors in its decode window by playing with the receivers bandwidth setting while decoding a signal. I find Wide or what would be FM mode on a Uniden seems to produce fewer decode errors when watching DSDPlus do its thing. This could also be some filter still in place in the raw or baseband audio path inside the R2500 though. It still works well as a receiver for DSDPlus though and will often decode and recover the audio on all the modes it supports.
 

Ubbe

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The R2500 has a capacitor to ground in the packet output jack that attenuates high frequencies but seems to only affect audio frequencies outside of normal P25/DMR/NXDN modulation. The filters in SDS scanners are a temporary afterthought that probably needs to be permanented. The func+5 shortcut activates the WiFi menu that you anyway very easily can access thru the menu and not something that you need to constantly change anyhow. Or that func+0 for offset volume are also a non priority function. I would think most people would appreciate if that could be changed to a quick select filter menu, even though that the marking on the keypad would be incorrect.

/Ubbe
 
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