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NXDN Encryption Question

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Res21cue

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Just testing out some encryption on one of my repeaters and I have having some wonky problems.

I have created an encryption key, enabled it and programed the radios when Encryption on that repeater. The triangle shows up aswell indicating it is enabled.

I also programmed in the same repeater again without the encryption as a test.

Much to my suprise, I was able to have clear conversations between both channels....sometimes. I would say 80% of the time the comms were clear both ways. The other 20% of the time the green light would show activity but no audio would pass indicating to me that encryption was working.

What is happening that this is only working 20% of the time?
 

kd4efm

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Remember, you don't need it I. The repeater if it's not being used as a base. It will pass through to the other radio just fine. I never let the repeater have the codes. Period.

Call me this even and I'll explain more detail.

kd4efm Evans, sent using TapTALK on my HTC M9
 

Res21cue

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So if I am understanding you correctly..... simply enabling encryption between 2 radios out of a group of 15...will not work...the encryption needs to be on the repeater end aswell?
 

16b

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Just testing out some encryption on one of my repeaters and I have having some wonky problems.

I have created an encryption key, enabled it and programed the radios when Encryption on that repeater. The triangle shows up aswell indicating it is enabled.

I also programmed in the same repeater again without the encryption as a test.

Much to my suprise, I was able to have clear conversations between both channels....sometimes. I would say 80% of the time the comms were clear both ways. The other 20% of the time the green light would show activity but no audio would pass indicating to me that encryption was working.

What is happening that this is only working 20% of the time?
This is a guess, because I do not have any radios in front of me right now to test. But, I am wondering if it is possible that when the radio on the encrypted channel sees a clear signal, it automatically switches to clear mode when you press the PTT. In other words, assuming you have one radio on the encrypted channel and one on the clear channel, if you TX *first* on the secure radio, does the transmission go through secure? Then, if you transmit on the clear radio and transmit immediately again on the secure radio, does the secure radio switch to clear mode?

BTW, what radios and encryption type are you using? I have a pair of NX-210s at home, along with an Icom FR-5000 that I can test with.
 

kd4efm

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So if I am understanding you correctly..... simply enabling encryption between 2 radios out of a group of 15...will not work...the encryption needs to be on the repeater end aswell?
No, don't need it in the repeater at all, just the radios.



kd4efm Evans, sent using TapTALK on my HTC M9
 

kd4efm

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If the radio is in the clear, an encrypted will hear clear also.

Coded, has to have same key ID, and code to hear it.

kd4efm Evans, sent using TapTALK on my HTC M9
 

Res21cue

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I am testing this using an NX-210 and NX-700

What I did was program the rptr with the encryption key into the portable and the rptr without the key into the mobile. When I transmit on the portable with the encryption key, the audio....80% of the time is coming across the mobile.... that doesn't have the key. Doesnt make any sense to me. Having said that, I tried to go the other way and it worked ofcourse, but maybe I didnt wait long enough before going back to the portable, maybe if the repeater is still open or was recently open, then the audio will pass even if encrypted like someone above had mentioned?
 

SCPD

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Radio 1: transmits encrypted
Repeater: has no key and passes the audio and transmission through
Radio 3 and 4: have no key and hear nothing or garble
Radio 5: has the key and is hearing clearly what radio 1 says

Ensure the radio or radios is setup properly when selecting secure so it is secure not clear.
 

Res21cue

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But heres the problem.....Radios 3 & 4 are hearing the audio clear as a bell....sometimes. Which forms the basis of my question. Why is this happening? Clear audio some transmissions... only the activity light and no audio on others
 

mmckenna

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Scan off?

Encryption selected for the channel?

And, I agree, you don't need to put the encryption key into the repeater. I'm running a trunked system with a few encrypted talk groups. None of the repeaters have the keys in them.
 

Res21cue

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Yup, scan is off and Enc selected. Portable shows the little encryption diamond and the mobile doesnt yet sometimes (not all the time) the audio passes through.

Tested on both type 1 and type 2 encryption

I have not tested this on an analog channel yet. This is all being done on NXDN, I will have to do that to see if the same thing happens there
 

Forts

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Even though the channel isn't setup for encryption, is the key loaded in the mobile? On many radio platforms the key simply being in the radio will automatically decode the audio, whether you want it to or not (provided it has the matching KID).
 

rescue161

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This is a shot in the dark, but I'd assume that if you program the repeater with the codes, then it decodes encrypted audio and sends out clear audio. The reason that the repeater is capable of accepting codes is because it can be run in base mode. If you are running it in repeater mode, you should not enter the codes into the repeater because of the likely chance that it will send out everything in the clear.
 

kd4efm

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This is a shot in the dark, but I'd assume that if you program the repeater with the codes, then it decodes encrypted audio and sends out clear audio. The reason that the repeater is capable of accepting codes is because it can be run in base mode. If you are running it in repeater mode, you should not enter the codes into the repeater because of the likely chance that it will send out everything in the clear.
No, the repeater loaded with a key, decryption will take place on the local speaker only. Why I said, don't load the repeater unless it is the base station also. If it is not, don't let others hear you.



kd4efm Evans, sent using TapTALK on my HTC M9
 

kd4efm

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Now the major question, what firmware version do you have in all the radios?

kd4efm Evans, sent using TapTALK on my HTC M9
 
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