NYPD Officers Acquitted of All Counts in 50-Shot Barrage That Killed Groom-to-Be

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mikepdx

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Always remember the magic words: I feared for my life.
Stick to them and repeat them liberally.

Beats a get-out-of-jail-free card every time.
 

mancow

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I don't know what you do for a living but I get the feeling it doesn't involve split second life and death situations similar to that. (Truly not trying to sound like an ass just an opinion).

Thank God I have never been in life fire shooting situation like that myself. However, I have been in some precarioius situations and I promise you that when things get crazy time and space just freakin warp man. It's bizarre.

Flash bang devices are around a million candle power and 175-180 or so db. I've stepped right over one and never heard it due simply to adrenaline. If you ask the others most will say the same thing.

When the mind percives a threat things go on auto pilot. A few rounds in F.A.T.S. training scenario will prove that to you. It's easy to dump a mag before you know you pulled off the first round.

All that doesn't mean the facts of the situation should be ignored but it needs to be taken in to consideration. The human mind can only process so much so fast. At some point all hell just breaks loose.




GreatLakes said:
50 shots fired at three unarmed men! One is dead, the other two were injured. When I do the math, the justification factor = 0
 

iMONITOR

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mancow said:
I don't know what you do for a living but I get the feeling it doesn't involve split second life and death situations similar to that.
Help me to understand what occurred to cause the officers involved to believe they were in a split second life and death situation?
 

mancow

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I don't know either. I haven't heard the facts of the case. From what I read briefly earlier today one perceived a threat, yelled gun and things went to hell. It would be interesting to hear or read the actual testimony.

I agree that things seem to hing on that first guy and what happened there with him that lit the fuze of the whole thing.

It just creeps me out. I can just think of a thousand similar circumstances and recall all the different things that go through your mind and I wonder what would have happened if somoene made a crazy gesture or movement that looked like something else. You're always on that edge of wanting to be able to be fast enough to respond to anything yet you are still afraid that you may over react.

I don't know what the answer is either. I doubt anyone ever really will except the dead guy and that Officer.

As for the rest. It sounds like a case of "sympathetic fire". They saw the explosion of action and heard the shots and believed the fire was coming from both directions.
 
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elk2370bruce

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dic said:
Anyone care to guess where and when the riots will start?

Dic
So long as Reverand Al (The media's pal) is involved with this, something's gonna blow because this kind of situation occurs far too frequently. It seems to me that the jury in this case had the final decision - not just the judge. Where were their heads at? Whether they dropped the ball or not can only be determined by someone who was in attendance - not us outsiders. Federal charges may still be filed. Rampant emotions lead to conjecture and conflict and then someone else will be hurt or killed.
 

af5rn

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GreatLakes said:
Help me to understand what occurred to cause the officers involved to believe they were in a split second life and death situation?
Well, if somebody is gunning a car straight at me and ramming my vehicle too, I'm thinking I would have to perceive that as immediately threatening. And when you go mouthing off about having a gun with you, you can't really be surprised when people take you at your word either. Really bad choices on these "youths" parts resulted in some really bad consequences.

On the other hand, you also have cops without uniforms, in vehicles without markings, running up to people on the street with guns in their hands, which is also a really stupid -- but typically New York -- move. Had any cops died in the incident, I would most likely be defending the shooter as justified. After all, they are just as justified to respond to a perceived threat as a cop is.
 

iMONITOR

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elk2370bruce said:
So long as Reverand Al (The media's pal) is involved with this, something's gonna blow because this kind of situation occurs far too frequently. It seems to me that the jury in this case had the final decision - not just the judge. Where were their heads at? Whether they dropped the ball or not can only be determined by someone who was in attendance - not us outsiders. Federal charges may still be filed. Rampant emotions lead to conjecture and conflict and then someone else will be hurt or killed.
That's part of the problem...there was no jury, only a judge.
 

RC54730

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GreatLakes said:
No surprise here!

NYPD Officers Acquitted of All Counts in 50-Shot Barrage That Killed Groom-to-Be
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352566,00.html
Well, good thing they opted for a judge trial (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) rather than a jury. There's still a chance the feds will get involved, but apart from that, just business as usual in the big apple - still not a great place to be black.
 

RC54730

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mancow said:
I don't know what you do for a living but I get the feeling it doesn't involve split second life and death situations similar to that. (Truly not trying to sound like an ass just an opinion).
[snip...]
All that doesn't mean the facts of the situation should be ignored but it needs to be taken in to consideration. The human mind can only process so much so fast. At some point all hell just breaks loose.
I think it's more a case of the human minds that are involved - the starting salary for a cop in NYC is around $28K. You can run up bar tabs that big in NYC just taking a couple clients out for an evening, so I guess it's kind of obvious what you're going to get when that kind of comp is offered. Of course, as with many government jobs, it's not going to be possible to pay the kinds of salaries that you'd have to in order to get higher quality people, so you end up with these kinds of mutts and the subsequent disasters they get involved in.

It's pretty obvious that this could have been avoided. My guess is that NYC did what they could to get these guys through the first round, but they'll be on their own for the second and third - federal civil rights probe, wrongful death, yada yada.
 

SCPD

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i think the math could be done rather easily, NYPD cops carry 9mm berettas, a gun that will carry 1 in the chamber, and 15 in the clip, you unload your mag, and reload and empty that clip thats 31 rounds fired, one officer, the one that actually fired the most shots, did in fact fire 31 shots, and you put up 7 officers, (which was the initial amount confronting bell) i can easily see how that many shots were fired, i truly believe that the courts made the right decision. it is tragic that a man was kill, the officers even stated on their own that this is something they will have to live with.
 

Tim-in-TX

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If I am ever on trial, I will pick a Judge ruled trial over a jury ruled trial any day. It has become obvious that, for the most part, my "peers" are morons and I would not trust them to make an educated decision on my life. Judges know law, citizen jury's seem to only know media hype...and since the majority of the media are Liberal, well....you get my drift.


And good for the cops. You try to run down the police and what do you expect to get, a slap on the wrist and an "I frightfully sorry to inconvenience you by doing my job sir" from the officers?
 

cpd38

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some people were pulling the "race card" but 2 of the 3 officers were black....this was pointed out on MSNBC and CNN.

I think it's a situation gone bad obviously. But a 3500 lb car is a weapon and will kill someone just as fast as a gun, knife, bat,etc.

Everyone can second guess everything you do no matter what it is. It's unfortunate that some guy died because of it. The guy that died wasn't very smart with his actions either. It's just a horrible situation for everyone involved.
 

iMONITOR

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lakekid313 said:
i think the math could be done rather easily, NYPD cops carry 9mm berettas, a gun that will carry 1 in the chamber, and 15 in the clip, you unload your mag, and reload and empty that clip thats 31 rounds fired, one officer, the one that actually fired the most shots, did in fact fire 31 shots, and you put up 7 officers, (which was the initial amount confronting bell) i can easily see how that many shots were fired, i truly believe that the courts made the right decision. it is tragic that a man was kill, the officers even stated on their own that this is something they will have to live with.
Yes but what were they shooting at/for? No one had a gun, no one shot at them. 50 shots because one man put his hand in his pocket? :confused:
 

z96cobra

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GreatLakes said:
Yes but what were they shooting at/for? No one had a gun, no one shot at them. 50 shots because one man put his hand in his pocket? :confused:
Bell was in the car driving toward the officer(s). The cop feared being run over. He also struck a police car, but I'm not sure if it was marked or not. One of the guys in the car said "go get my gun" while inside the club. One of the undercover cops heard him say this. Its pretty easy to see why the cops thought their lives were in danger. If the cops didn't identify themselves, it would be easy to see why someone wouldn't stop for a guy in street clothes pointing a gun at them. At least one of the guys in the car had a record, according to www.cnn.com .

Roger
 
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