Oakland County M/A-COM OpenSky TRS

Status
Not open for further replies.

BT202

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Messages
29
Location
SE Michigan
Time to come to grips.

For the fourth time, I call on the RR members in Oakland County to take this and run with it. Get a letter in the Oakland Press, use the info Thunderbolt posted as a starting point, along with all the other postings, and show Oakland County residents how, in this econoinic downturn, your county is wasting taxpayer dollars on a unproven, unreliable, highly costly, and severly problematic radio system.

Carry on how the MSPSC system, (which you can hear), is the greatest thing to hit the airwaves since Marconi tickled the ether with his longwave. Sure you may be doing more baffle than dazzle, braggin on the MSPSC system. But fight, Fight, FIGHT to get a radio system you CAN hear.

You need to tell John Q. Public, through the Oakland Press. Don't write a letter to the sheriff or L. Brooks, or the County Board of Commisioners. They are the ones that approved spending millions so far. Do think really they are going to acknowledge, after all the money spent so far, they were wrong? That would not be politicallty correct. They may lose the next election that way.

I know there will be a reply or two to this post, saying how OpenSky is working just fine somewhere. And I'm sure there have been many sucessful implementations. So what? All I read about on here is Oakland County residents (and others) whining because they can't, or won't be able to hear the new system. Well, you have a golden opprotunity, right now, to park the tears and actually do something about it.

I'm afraid all of the hand wringing about Open Sky in Oakland County continues to ignore several points:

- The contract with M/A Com was signed years ago (long before our current economic climate). Even IF the county wanted to back out of Open Sky today, they would be found in breech of contract in the subsequent litigation (i.e., law suit) and still liable (i.e., responsible) for the money. Remember too, M/A Com spent huge money out of pocket when this project was begun - money that would not be recouped until AFTER completion of the various stages. Do you really think M/A Com would just walk away and sulk after taking such a hit? I think not. Oakland County would be dragged into court almost immediately and bogged down there for the next few years. Tell me that wouldn't be expensive.

- Do you even know how the Open Sky system in Oakland County is funded? Tell you what.... we'll get back to that.

- The infrastructure is already in place; 36 towers and miles and miles and miles of interconnecting data lines. The radios continue in production and delivery.

- Those who insist the MPSCS is the greatest thing since "Marconi tickled the ether with his longwaves" (????) and THE way for the county to go (just so scanner listening won't die in Oakland County) are forgetting the fact that local police and fire departments don't want their communications system to be under the thumb of the Michigan State Police. The OakWin program will permit a great deal of autonomy for individual public safety agencies, while allowing interoperability (including with MSP). The great and powerful Oz (MPSCS) is not spectrum efficient and not capable of carrying all of the police, fire, EMS, and hospital traffic in Oakland County given the number of frequencies available and the number of users. MPSCS would NOT be free, either. Do you really think MSP would supply a complete MPSCS system to every police, fire, EMS provider, and hospital for free???? Please. They're in worse economic straights than General Motors. Either way, the county pays. Better to pay for something you'll own and control.

- Has Open Sky had its share of problems? You bet. But, given the available spectrum and the demands for interoperability, new technology is badly needed. Do you remember cell phones 10 - 15 years ago? Who would even think about going back to that system? Look what new wireless phones can do: enable a conversation, texting, surfing the web, checking your e-mail, and taking photos of your trip and sending them to relatives on the other side of the country. The explosion of cell users and finite frequencies available demanded new systems and new equipment. Somehow, humanity survived that step in evolution. Fortunately for our generation, a couple of bicycle makers in Dayton, Ohio, decided to try something new a hundred years ago, instead of staying with "the greatest thing to tickle the cobblestone since the horse-drawn buggy."

- Some would say Open Sky is the county's way of keeping scanner listeners from hearing what's going on. To those people, I would say, "Get over yourself." Were that the case, a basic county-wide encryption system would be far more inexpensive than a completely new radio system. The fact that the Open Sky algorithm cannot be scanned is an accident; M/A Com had to come up with something new given the requirements placed before them. After years of research and development on this system, do you really think they'd just hand it over to scanner manufacturers AND (subsequently) other competitors? Why do you think Microsoft's products aren't open source? Answer: they don't want to do all of the work for competitors who'll make money off of that labor. Makes sense to me. Sorry, guys. That's how smart business is run.

- The suggestion that everyone start writing the Oakland Press in protest of Open Sky is laughable, but quite apropos . Firstly, newspaper readership and subscription in the United States has suffered a sharp decline since cable news and the Internet (over 20 years now). Newspapers are to the electronic media what most legacy radio systems are to newer available technologies.

- Now, back to how Open Sky in Oakland County is financed. Here it is:

"1) A monthly statewide 9-1-1 surcharge of .18 cents will be placed on the monthly billing of 'all communications devices.' (MCL 484.1401a [1]-[7] and MCL 484.1408 [1]-[3]). This surcharge is to be remitted to the Michigan Department of Treasury.

The above is a tax enacted by LANSING on each cell phone, fax line, and land line phone you have. Oakland Country DID NOT just add a tax, contrary to popular (and sadly mistaken belief). Oakland County has elected to use this incoming tax revenue to fund the new radio system. Okay, that's 18 cents a month on each of your communications devices. This is money that would be going to your local police / fire agencies ANYWAY. The OakWin coalition members have taken their share of those funds and contributed them to the new system. Do you want to cut off funding for OakWin? Fine. Get rid of your cell phones, your home phone, fax lines, etc. In my circumstance, I pay $6.48 A YEAR for three phones. How much do you spend on just one Starbucks? A pack of cigarettes? Beer? MP3 downloads for your $200 iPod? A ticket to the Wings / Pistons / Tigers? Gas for your snowmobile?

Go ahead and flame me. It won't change the facts.

By the way, as of Tuesday, April 14, 2009, another police agency flipped the switch.
 

Forts

Mentor
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
6,713
Location
Ontario, Canada
Excellent post BT202. Like it or not, the facts are the facts. Even if they didn't go OpenSky and went to MPSCS.... but with encryption. Still the same end result to the scanner enthusiast, with the same uproar.
 

Jimmy252

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 28, 2006
Messages
557
Location
Oakland County, MI
In my opinion, encryption/not being able to listen is not the problem (Tho a part of me would enjoy listening), GO WITH SOMETHING THAT WORKS! Don't be the guinea pigs of this new, miraculous, unearthly system...we dont need to impress anyone with the technology we have. Go with something well tested, and proven that it will work. Oakland shouldnt be the test site. What happens if Oakland System 1 goes down? Theres not really any mutual aid fallback, except a police intercity channel, which wont get the job done. Their current system is getting old, and now Ma/Com is delaying until 2013. Why not go MPSCS, create a county-wide EDACS, like the state of Florida, hell just stick with what they have...they need something that is working well and reliable. Go ahead and encrypt every channel...just as long as i know we're all safe at night, and emergency services can communicate successfully, thats all i really care about. They just need to do something that will work. News on RR says that New York has pulled out because of the problems, and a few other areas as well (I know, contracts). Smart moves IMO, they are going with something that works...
 

bigbluemsp

Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
1,692
Location
Michigan
Jimmy, MPSCS is not, has not been, will not be an option. Period.

Oakland County is their own State and they deserve to be their own island with all this crap and pouting and touting their system which frankly has failed so far, taken to much time to work and wasted tax payer money.

Oakland county is hell bent on making sure this Open Sky works unlike all the others that M/A COM has done that failed.

If M/A COM goes belly up Oakland will be left holding the bag with a inoperable system, whcih they won't be able to get parts for.
 

Jimmy252

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 28, 2006
Messages
557
Location
Oakland County, MI
Jimmy, MPSCS is not, has not been, will not be an option. Period.


yes...i know that, i just worded it badly, with my main intention as "Go with something else".

Ive been told and have seen here, like BigBlue says, that Oakland is pretty much its own state, not gettin along with the state as a whole.
 

Mark01

Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2003
Messages
126
Location
S.E. Michigan
must be simulcasting cause I still hear them

well either my scanners broke or Bloomfield Township went to m/a com land.

have not heard a voice transmission on 853.1625 pl 156.7 and 853.2125 pl 156.7 for the last 2 days.I have heard the fire tones played on ther main 853.1625 frequency,but with no voice.

Last i heard they were the next agency to make the switch and that was supposedly in february or march.
 

RayAir

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Messages
1,930
In my opinion, encryption/not being able to listen is not the problem (Tho a part of me would enjoy listening), GO WITH SOMETHING THAT WORKS! Don't be the guinea pigs of this new, miraculous, unearthly system...we dont need to impress anyone with the technology we have. Go with something well tested, and proven that it will work. Oakland shouldnt be the test site. What happens if Oakland System 1 goes down? Theres not really any mutual aid fallback, except a police intercity channel, which wont get the job done. Their current system is getting old, and now Ma/Com is delaying until 2013. Why not go MPSCS, create a county-wide EDACS, like the state of Florida, hell just stick with what they have...they need something that is working well and reliable. Go ahead and encrypt every channel...just as long as i know we're all safe at night, and emergency services can communicate successfully, thats all i really care about. They just need to do something that will work. News on RR says that New York has pulled out because of the problems, and a few other areas as well (I know, contracts). Smart moves IMO, they are going with something that works...

I know they have the 800MHz ITAC frequencies as back ups. I heard a lot of FD's use them because of poor Open Sky coverage with portables.
 

w8jjr

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
239
Location
Lincoln MI
well either my scanners broke or Bloomfield Township went to m/a com land.

have not heard a voice transmission on 853.1625 pl 156.7 and 853.2125 pl 156.7 for the last 2 days.I have heard the fire tones played on ther main 853.1625 frequency,but with no voice.

Last i heard they were the next agency to make the switch and that was supposedly in february or march.

Nope the radio is still good. After Tuesday night I have not heard anything and was at a Communication Failure Test Saturday morning and they have the radios. Oh well another dead zone in the radio :(


And your right Ray_Air ITAC frequencies have been active lately.
 

jjracer29

Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
8
Location
Northville, MI
Guys, I have read through all of these posts and excuse my ignorance but I am extremely new to the digital scanner age. You mean to tell me that I just bought this $500+ digital scanner (Uniden BCD396XT), and I won't be able to pick up anything on the OpenSky Network? This means no Novi, Wixom, Troy, etc.? This just seems crazy, not to mention all the problems it looks like they are having with it.
 

Universaldecoder

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 21, 2003
Messages
405
Location
Michigan
Guys, I have read through all of these posts and excuse my ignorance but I am extremely new to the digital scanner age. You mean to tell me that I just bought this $500+ digital scanner (Uniden BCD396XT), and I won't be able to pick up anything on the OpenSky Network? This means no Novi, Wixom, Troy, etc.? This just seems crazy, not to mention all the problems it looks like they are having with it.

Yep. Although, hopefully some communities might simulcast in some distant future. I've got a 996T in my car, and when I enter Troy - it goes silent (except for FRS, Businesses, and MPSCS).
 
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2
Location
Rochester Hills
Isn't Wayne county on MPSCS? If so then you can monitor that. Im sure with a discone antenna you would be able to hear rx tx's from Wayne county. By the way I've wondered for a long time when did the OC Motorola System 1 come online?>
 

w8jjr

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
239
Location
Lincoln MI
Guys, I have read through all of these posts and excuse my ignorance but I am extremely new to the digital scanner age. You mean to tell me that I just bought this $500+ digital scanner (Uniden BCD396XT), and I won't be able to pick up anything on the OpenSky Network? This means no Novi, Wixom, Troy, etc.? This just seems crazy, not to mention all the problems it looks like they are having with it.

You got it.......
 

MOTST

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
70
Location
Lansing
Guys, I have read through all of these posts and excuse my ignorance but I am extremely new to the digital scanner age. You mean to tell me that I just bought this $500+ digital scanner (Uniden BCD396XT), and I won't be able to pick up anything on the OpenSky Network? This means no Novi, Wixom, Troy, etc.? This just seems crazy, not to mention all the problems it looks like they are having with it.

But by the sounds of it, no one else can pick them up either!
 

gus88

Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
37
Location
Oak Park, MI
Guys, I have read through all of these posts and excuse my ignorance but I am extremely new to the digital scanner age. You mean to tell me that I just bought this $500+ digital scanner (Uniden BCD396XT), and I won't be able to pick up anything on the OpenSky Network? This means no Novi, Wixom, Troy, etc.? This just seems crazy, not to mention all the problems it looks like they are having with it.

The greater majority of agencies in southern Oakland county are still using conventional VHF/UHF, including Novi. Wixom can be heard on the Oakland County SmartNet TRS. There are only a few agencies I know of that are on OpenSky. Farmington, Clawson, Troy and a few others.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top