Ben96cal
Member
It's amazing.. I've got both the edacs system and the P25 system programmed and the P25 is kicking the edacs butt.. I'm maxed out on P25 but only 2-3 bars on the edacs from SSF...
oakland trunk Switching to Rebanded System tomorrow
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Oakland Fire 1 is on 13-021.
Correct me if I am wrong but I have yet to hear any public works chatter on the p25 side . I heard some on Edacs today though. I would hazard a guess Oakland is going to keep Edacs around for a while as a backup. My other big theory is with fewer freqs in either new system they are going to keep some users on Edacs. We will see how it all plays out.
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I ran Unitrunker using my PSR-500 with my Pro-97 to monitor for voice frequencies and have verified the following for the Seneca site.
LCN 1: 851.7125 (current data channel)
LCN 2: 852.1375
LCN 3: 852.725
LCN 4: 853.2 (6/29 data channel)
Activity is still fairly light on this site but I believe those are all the frequencies. I have submitted this to the db already.
LCN 1: 851.7125 (current data channel)
LCN 2: 852.1375
LCN 3: 852.725
LCN 4: 853.2 (6/29 data channel)
Activity is still fairly light on this site but I believe those are all the frequencies. I have submitted this to the db already.
Thanks Radiobern!
Just a reminder, but patched EDACS TG's are announced as patch just like on Motorola systems. From what I recall newer Uniden scanners could tell you this, or use CC decoding software to figure it out. I don't know how UniTrunker handles patches but Etrunk would tell you.
Retired911Guy
Member
Listened for a few hrs each day over the weekend and here'e what I came up with as far as TG's.
I have never listened to the below agencies so I can't tell the dispatchers voice or style or the unit ids used, maybe someone else who as listened to the below agencies can verify or not.
If the db admins believe I have good evidence then by all means add to the db.
Oakland Housing Auth PD
15-001 Ch 1 Dispatch
15-002 Ch 2
Ch 1 - Heard 3-4 dispatches or refs to addresses, all were within Oak City Limits. 2 of the dispatches included "OPD was also enroute".
Ch-2 - Heard a voice that was just on Ch1 that was same voice and unit #.
Unit numbers July 4thy late eve were 23,26,32,36, today I've heard 6L36 and others, maybe sometimes they get lazy and just used the last part of their ID#.
I don't receive them very well, mostly broken off of Broadway.
Piedmont PD
15-101 Ch1 Dispatch
Heard 5 dispatches, all addresses within the City of Piedmont.
Oak FD
13-022 Tac 2
This I'm Sure of, heard a structure dispatch, all units respond on Oak 2, this TG is where they showed up.
UNKNOWN Agencies
Heard PD type talk on 14-041 & something on 14-141, I may have mistaken the TGs and this may have been just one or the other not both. Both transmissions were very brief and broken. Have not heard since.
I have never listened to the below agencies so I can't tell the dispatchers voice or style or the unit ids used, maybe someone else who as listened to the below agencies can verify or not.
If the db admins believe I have good evidence then by all means add to the db.
Oakland Housing Auth PD
15-001 Ch 1 Dispatch
15-002 Ch 2
Ch 1 - Heard 3-4 dispatches or refs to addresses, all were within Oak City Limits. 2 of the dispatches included "OPD was also enroute".
Ch-2 - Heard a voice that was just on Ch1 that was same voice and unit #.
Unit numbers July 4thy late eve were 23,26,32,36, today I've heard 6L36 and others, maybe sometimes they get lazy and just used the last part of their ID#.
I don't receive them very well, mostly broken off of Broadway.
Piedmont PD
15-101 Ch1 Dispatch
Heard 5 dispatches, all addresses within the City of Piedmont.
Oak FD
13-022 Tac 2
This I'm Sure of, heard a structure dispatch, all units respond on Oak 2, this TG is where they showed up.
UNKNOWN Agencies
Heard PD type talk on 14-041 & something on 14-141, I may have mistaken the TGs and this may have been just one or the other not both. Both transmissions were very brief and broken. Have not heard since.
I heard traffic on 15-001 which I suspected to be Housing Authority PD. I also heard traffic on 14-041 and 14-141, the latter of which I suspected to be public works.
From what I have seen, they appear to have preserved the old talkgroup structure, changing only the 2-digit prefix of the AFS talkgroup IDs. Police talkgroups switched from 02 to 12, Fire talkgroups switched from 04 to 13, City Services talkgroups switched from 06 to 14, and Housing Authority PD talkgroups switched from 07 to 15.
The only exception I've noticed to date is Piedmont PD, which according to your report has switched from 08-121 to 15-101. But I'm thinking, why don't we carry all of the talkgroups over this way (shifting each 2-digit prefix to its rebanded version) and then we can make any corrections as needed?
From what I have seen, they appear to have preserved the old talkgroup structure, changing only the 2-digit prefix of the AFS talkgroup IDs. Police talkgroups switched from 02 to 12, Fire talkgroups switched from 04 to 13, City Services talkgroups switched from 06 to 14, and Housing Authority PD talkgroups switched from 07 to 15.
The only exception I've noticed to date is Piedmont PD, which according to your report has switched from 08-121 to 15-101. But I'm thinking, why don't we carry all of the talkgroups over this way (shifting each 2-digit prefix to its rebanded version) and then we can make any corrections as needed?
Retired911Guy
Member
Hi Martin,
15-001 must be Housing Auth PD, they have Peace Officer status, making traffic stops, running reg cks, wants & warrants, all within Oak City Limits. I would submit it, however there's something strange going on, on 6 occasions now, I've heard dispatch 15-001 tell a unit to go to ch 2 and then I hear the unit say on 2, the dispatcher says yap,yap,yap, then the unit says copy back to 1. Sounds straight forward enough, however when they're saying they are on ch 2, it shows they are still on TG 15-001 and I hear nothing on 15-002.
14-141 Seems to be DPW the dispatcher is called "Call Center" maybe a DPW clearing house for all calls? Did hear 2 calls re: sewer problems and 1 re: a street problem. It could also be just Sewer, if a big enough sewer line blows they would need the street dept to fix the street.
14-041 Seem to be parking enforcement, heard unit say he was out walking the "Piedmont Lot" (Google maps shows a parking lot called the Piedmont Lot on Piedmont Ave in OAK), then heard a unit say veh has been sited at xxxx (said the address). Dispatch is NOT OPD, they are "Base"
NEW TGs
14-061 OPD-OFD Inter-Op (maybe citywide don't know) 4L1 called OFD and asked for the reporting parties address on a certain call, OFD gave RP address, 4L1 said thanks.
14-081 Radio techs doing radio cks for hrs, who will come up here is anybodies guess.
I also noticed that most of the TGs just the prefix was changed with some exceptions. However NOT all TGs are on EDACS, OFD had 2 STR dispatches at same time, OAK2 for the 1st, OAK3 for the 2nd, OAK2 came in fine, OAK3 was NOWHERE to be found scaning the new 13 prefix and wildcard search, it was there at all.
Emeryville FD Tac Oak5 is 13-025 Heard smoke in a building, full quieting fantastic ANALOG system.
I get about 90% of EDACS, especially well from Antennas pointed N,NW,W, - S & E not so good. I get about .001% of the P25 system.
Just heard while typing this...
12-045 which according to the prefix change should OPD Tac 5, heard 5L71 traffic stop, but no one answered him, no other traffic. Maybe he was on wrong ch. But 12-045 is there and working.
Dave
15-001 must be Housing Auth PD, they have Peace Officer status, making traffic stops, running reg cks, wants & warrants, all within Oak City Limits. I would submit it, however there's something strange going on, on 6 occasions now, I've heard dispatch 15-001 tell a unit to go to ch 2 and then I hear the unit say on 2, the dispatcher says yap,yap,yap, then the unit says copy back to 1. Sounds straight forward enough, however when they're saying they are on ch 2, it shows they are still on TG 15-001 and I hear nothing on 15-002.
14-141 Seems to be DPW the dispatcher is called "Call Center" maybe a DPW clearing house for all calls? Did hear 2 calls re: sewer problems and 1 re: a street problem. It could also be just Sewer, if a big enough sewer line blows they would need the street dept to fix the street.
14-041 Seem to be parking enforcement, heard unit say he was out walking the "Piedmont Lot" (Google maps shows a parking lot called the Piedmont Lot on Piedmont Ave in OAK), then heard a unit say veh has been sited at xxxx (said the address). Dispatch is NOT OPD, they are "Base"
NEW TGs
14-061 OPD-OFD Inter-Op (maybe citywide don't know) 4L1 called OFD and asked for the reporting parties address on a certain call, OFD gave RP address, 4L1 said thanks.
14-081 Radio techs doing radio cks for hrs, who will come up here is anybodies guess.
I also noticed that most of the TGs just the prefix was changed with some exceptions. However NOT all TGs are on EDACS, OFD had 2 STR dispatches at same time, OAK2 for the 1st, OAK3 for the 2nd, OAK2 came in fine, OAK3 was NOWHERE to be found scaning the new 13 prefix and wildcard search, it was there at all.
Emeryville FD Tac Oak5 is 13-025 Heard smoke in a building, full quieting fantastic ANALOG system.
I get about 90% of EDACS, especially well from Antennas pointed N,NW,W, - S & E not so good. I get about .001% of the P25 system.
Just heard while typing this...
12-045 which according to the prefix change should OPD Tac 5, heard 5L71 traffic stop, but no one answered him, no other traffic. Maybe he was on wrong ch. But 12-045 is there and working.
Dave
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Sounds like we have the same luck with reception. I receive EDACS fine (5 bars from APL, 3 bars from Seneca). However, despite excellent signal strength on the P25 system, my scanner has trouble locking in on the control channel (as if the system is out of range). And when monitoring the voice channels in conventional mode, the P25 audio is usually garbled or choppy.
As for not all talkgroups being on EDACS, I had similar findings. When I monitored the system a few days ago, Oakland Fire 1 was on Seneca but not APL (Broadway). Then they responded to an incident using a tactical channel which did not come up on EDACS. Seems like fire mainly uses P25, while most of the PD traffic is still carried on EDACS.
In your opinion, do you think we should:
1) Carry all of the talkgroups over by changing the 2-digit prefixes and making corrections as needed?
OR
2) Clear out all of the old talkgroups and add new ones as they are observed and properly identified?
As for not all talkgroups being on EDACS, I had similar findings. When I monitored the system a few days ago, Oakland Fire 1 was on Seneca but not APL (Broadway). Then they responded to an incident using a tactical channel which did not come up on EDACS. Seems like fire mainly uses P25, while most of the PD traffic is still carried on EDACS.
In your opinion, do you think we should:
1) Carry all of the talkgroups over by changing the 2-digit prefixes and making corrections as needed?
OR
2) Clear out all of the old talkgroups and add new ones as they are observed and properly identified?
Retired911Guy
Member
Martin,
Oakland Fire Broadway is down again, went down right in the middle of a STR dispatch, but picked the dispatch back up on Seneca. Luckily the STR fire was down right under Seneca and heard the whole thing very well, 1 house with damage to another. But now hearing nothing in the downtown-north areas of town on FD, PD is working fine on Broadway.
I think the FD being down on Broadway is a tech problem, it went down late 4th of July night and stayed down until the next day when I assume the techs fixed the problem. --- I just heard Piedmont FD on Broadway just not OFD.
I've reprogrammed my scanners to all the new prefixes, but still use the * wildcard search in scan mode to check for new TGs. But I also refer back to the original TGs listed on RR db to see if a new TG matches up with any of the old TGs.
So I think the way it is right now is probably the best way for now. With some TGs NOT being on EDACS we don't if they ever will be, so it makes sense to verify before updating the db.
I too have programmed in the P25 freqs as conventional P25 and get almost nothing, once in a while I do hear some noise but can't even tell what it is.
Are you still in TV, that's where I am, behind the big hill just past Maple St towards Loring Av on Hwy 1. If you know where that is, you know why I have such reception problems.
TO: triptolemus
I did think of that but thought it could be a programming error or a dispatch console error because I did believe I heard them on 15-002 a few days before.
But the TECHs must be reading this string, because just 5 mins ago I heard 15-001 say go to 2 and guess what, they showed up on 15-002 !!!
So if you Oakland Techs are reading this, FD Broadway is down again....
Oakland Fire Broadway is down again, went down right in the middle of a STR dispatch, but picked the dispatch back up on Seneca. Luckily the STR fire was down right under Seneca and heard the whole thing very well, 1 house with damage to another. But now hearing nothing in the downtown-north areas of town on FD, PD is working fine on Broadway.
I think the FD being down on Broadway is a tech problem, it went down late 4th of July night and stayed down until the next day when I assume the techs fixed the problem. --- I just heard Piedmont FD on Broadway just not OFD.
I've reprogrammed my scanners to all the new prefixes, but still use the * wildcard search in scan mode to check for new TGs. But I also refer back to the original TGs listed on RR db to see if a new TG matches up with any of the old TGs.
So I think the way it is right now is probably the best way for now. With some TGs NOT being on EDACS we don't if they ever will be, so it makes sense to verify before updating the db.
I too have programmed in the P25 freqs as conventional P25 and get almost nothing, once in a while I do hear some noise but can't even tell what it is.
Are you still in TV, that's where I am, behind the big hill just past Maple St towards Loring Av on Hwy 1. If you know where that is, you know why I have such reception problems.
TO: triptolemus
I did think of that but thought it could be a programming error or a dispatch console error because I did believe I heard them on 15-002 a few days before.
But the TECHs must be reading this string, because just 5 mins ago I heard 15-001 say go to 2 and guess what, they showed up on 15-002 !!!
So if you Oakland Techs are reading this, FD Broadway is down again....
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I had thought that Oakland Fire 1 not being on the APL site was because traffic was now patched to the EDACS system on an as-needed basis. If an EDACS radio was affiliated with a particular talkgroup, the talkgroup would be patched to EDACS on that site. If only P25 radios were affiliated with the talkgroup, then the talkgroup would not be carried by EDACS at all. This is complete guesswork, but it would explain why we only hear some talkgroups, some of the time.
And yes, I'm still in TV, on top of the big hill you're referring to, with direct line of sight to Oakland...and my reception of the P25 system is no better than yours. Go figure.
And yes, I'm still in TV, on top of the big hill you're referring to, with direct line of sight to Oakland...and my reception of the P25 system is no better than yours. Go figure.
...and two years ago I could get both the EDACS system and the P25 system (while it was still in the testing phase) with tolerable quality with a radioshack 800 MHz hand held antenna from the western half of Ross Valley. Go figure. 
Retired911Guy
Member
Martin, you are CRUEL CRUEL man, do you how decades I've looked up at that hill and wished my house was up there and NOT down here in this canyon. It's probably YOUR house that's blocking MY radio signals!!!
I Jacked my Antenna up another 10 feet and I am getting some traffic that I can understand on P25, I'm taking my GRE 600 on a road trip up to Panoramic just past the Hwy 1 Muir Beach Y to see if I can get the P25 in full. I'll let you know. (Also looking for new TGs both systems)
--Inigo,
Hey how you doing down there, are you temp at UC or staying there with the sunshine,beaches & babes??
Back to business, I too used to pick up that so called P25 Future system off on Eagle Ridge that simulcast OFD 1, 2, 8. Came BOOMING in, don't what's up now, but seems like it's NOT Eagle Ridge.
Dave
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Retired911Guy
Member
BTW I Submitted these TGs Today,
New TGs for Oakland Edacs
15-001 Oakland Housing Auth PD 1 Dispatch
15-002 Oakland Housing Auth PD 2 Tac
14-041 Parking Enforcement
14-141 Sanitation-Sewer Lines (Also has Inter-op to OFD on this TG)
14-145 Street Maintenance
14-061 OPD-OFD Inter-op
13-023 OFD Tac 3
13-024 OFD Tac 4
13-030 OFD Tac 8
Also heard traffic on 12-045 that was OPD but couldn't verify CH Name from said traffic - Old OPD TG 045 was OPD Tac 5 -
Still Working on 2-3 more. Seems like radio techs are adding new interfaces each day.
Dave
New TGs for Oakland Edacs
15-001 Oakland Housing Auth PD 1 Dispatch
15-002 Oakland Housing Auth PD 2 Tac
14-041 Parking Enforcement
14-141 Sanitation-Sewer Lines (Also has Inter-op to OFD on this TG)
14-145 Street Maintenance
14-061 OPD-OFD Inter-op
13-023 OFD Tac 3
13-024 OFD Tac 4
13-030 OFD Tac 8
Also heard traffic on 12-045 that was OPD but couldn't verify CH Name from said traffic - Old OPD TG 045 was OPD Tac 5 -
Still Working on 2-3 more. Seems like radio techs are adding new interfaces each day.
Dave
Haha, you should move up here. Anyway, my scanner indicates full signal strength from the P25 control channel, but for some reason is unable to follow the system in trunking mode. It locks on and comes off the control channel repeatedly (as if I were on the edge of the coverage area) and the voice channels are garbled and choppy in conventional mode. I've tried standing on the deck in case my house was interfering with the signal, but had no better luck. It's like the P25 signal degrades over the distance, and by the time it gets here the scanner can't decode it. Is that possible?
Nice work identifying all those new talkgroups. Seems like all of the major PD and FD talkgroups have carried over with the 2-digit prefix change, while the city services talkgroups have either changed or were incorrectly identified in the old system.
Nice work identifying all those new talkgroups. Seems like all of the major PD and FD talkgroups have carried over with the 2-digit prefix change, while the city services talkgroups have either changed or were incorrectly identified in the old system.
Hey Dave,
Yeah Oakland made the switch from the "P25 Future" system to the "P25 present" system (haha) after I moved down here for school. That's unfortunate to hear the "Future system" exceeded the expectations of the "Present" system, because I agree it came booming in. I definitely miss home and I'll be back for at least a little while at the end of the summer. In the mean time the "sunshine, beaches & babes" isn't exactly torture.
Martin, what you're describing are symptoms of P25-LSM (Linear Simulcast Modulation). I'm not definitively sure that's the problem because up until now I didn't think site 202 was a simulcast site (many towers simulcasting at once) and I haven't dug around the FCC licenses yet to see if they yield any clues, but the symptoms you describe fit perfectly with the P25-LSM issue. Read that thread, but it seems like scanner manufacturers haven't been able to catch up. Your two best bets are to turn the attenuator on while listening and see if that remotely helps (it might block out the signals from more distant towers and create less multipath), otherwise the only really bulletproof method is to buy a direction Yagi antenna and point it at only one tower on the system. Again, I'm not even sure they're using simulcasting or P25-LSM, but it's a decent hypothesis.
----------------
To everyone following the thread:
I've taken the liberty of writing up the original Oakland EDACS frequency, LCN and talkgroup information and put it in the wiki. You can access it at any time by navigating to the Oakland/Piedmont EDACS system, going to the Collaborate tab and clicking on the "Oakland/Piedmont EDACS wiki page." Please use this information as reference to help figure out the new talkgroups!
Since it has become clear that Oakland has completely rebuilt the EDACS system and its LCN frequency order and AFS talkgroup formatting, I am deleting all the original talkgroups from the system. They are not lost for good! Please refer to the wiki for comparison with the original system when figuring out new talkgroups!
Retired911Guy
Member
What scanner are you using?
My GRE 600 gets small amounts of voice but then drops, my BC796 locks on the Control Ch and goes nowhere.
Just got back from my road trip test, Panoramic hwy a few turns above Hwy 1 Muir Beach Y, can see Oakland clear as a bell, see the big buildings downtown (where Broadway is), can see all of Oakland Hills (where Eagle Peak/Ridge whatever it is).
EDACS came in absolutely crisp and clean, no static, no nothing wrong at all, Beautiful.
P25 barely heard, some txs were readable but then the answer to the Disp or Unit was unreadable.
Decided to go down closer, South, went to Ft Baker Rd and sat there lower level and again looking directly at DownTown, and P25 came in fine.
I would to say that P25 has some serious down tilt antennas and don't radiate North very well at all.
I came back through Sausalito and heard some traffic, then all the way to Tam Junction heard a tx or 2 but breaking. Maybe up on YOUR HILL you're to high for the down tilt antennas? But then It shouldn't come over the hill and hit me a little better just because I jacked up my 800 antenna 10 feet. But I do have a 20db gain preamp on it.
Maybe for the P25 you need to preamp a little...
Dave
BTW while I was in Ft Baker the GGB had a jumper, I saw USCG scramble 2 boats and speed out of the harbor, but at that time I didn't know why. Then I heard MERA dispatch E1,R9 and M10, saw the 2 CG boats criss crossing around under the bridge, then the large faster one came speeding in but carried no one off the boat, M10 reported CG stated DOA and they concurred.
Just happened to be there, not excited to see, but was interesting see and listen to.
My GRE 600 gets small amounts of voice but then drops, my BC796 locks on the Control Ch and goes nowhere.
Just got back from my road trip test, Panoramic hwy a few turns above Hwy 1 Muir Beach Y, can see Oakland clear as a bell, see the big buildings downtown (where Broadway is), can see all of Oakland Hills (where Eagle Peak/Ridge whatever it is).
EDACS came in absolutely crisp and clean, no static, no nothing wrong at all, Beautiful.
P25 barely heard, some txs were readable but then the answer to the Disp or Unit was unreadable.
Decided to go down closer, South, went to Ft Baker Rd and sat there lower level and again looking directly at DownTown, and P25 came in fine.
I would to say that P25 has some serious down tilt antennas and don't radiate North very well at all.
I came back through Sausalito and heard some traffic, then all the way to Tam Junction heard a tx or 2 but breaking. Maybe up on YOUR HILL you're to high for the down tilt antennas? But then It shouldn't come over the hill and hit me a little better just because I jacked up my 800 antenna 10 feet. But I do have a 20db gain preamp on it.
Maybe for the P25 you need to preamp a little...
Dave
BTW while I was in Ft Baker the GGB had a jumper, I saw USCG scramble 2 boats and speed out of the harbor, but at that time I didn't know why. Then I heard MERA dispatch E1,R9 and M10, saw the 2 CG boats criss crossing around under the bridge, then the large faster one came speeding in but carried no one off the boat, M10 reported CG stated DOA and they concurred.
Just happened to be there, not excited to see, but was interesting see and listen to.
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