oakland trunk Switching to Rebanded System tomorrow
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Retired911Guy
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I Have Verified that P25 TG 31557 is Patrol 5, Matched it with Edacs 12-25 Patrol 5. Will submit.
However here's the question, the P25 TG has an about 1 second delay from the Edacs transmission. Why would this be??
Do the P25 SCANNERS need an extra second to decode P25, or is the Edacs the primary site sending the audio to the P25 site for retransmission causing the delay??
It can't (in my feeble mind) be the other way around, P25 system feeding the Edacs audio transmission, if so, then the Edacs should have the delay if any.
Can anyone explain, or any ideas ??
EDIT: Forgot to mention the Edacs was on my BC796 and the P25 was on my GRE600 (maybe they have different decode timing)
Just thinking, better stop, makes my head hurt...
Dave
PS: I have finally reprogrammed my bc796 for the NEW Edacs system and all TGs, will be going on a road trip to Ft Baker soon to SIT on Edacs Chls and try match some of the UNK P25 TGs (or the other way around) I posted a few posts ago. Repost, this time TG order and with 2 more added
31558 P25 Unk 1
31572 P25 Unk 2
31573 P25 Unk 3
31921 P25 Unk 4
31922 P25 Unk 5
65501 P25 Unk 6
65502 P25 Unk 7
65504 P25 Unk 8
65505 P25 Unk 8.5 <-- EDIT Just added
65510 P25 Unk 9
65514 P25 Unk 10
65517 P25 Unk 11
65519 P25 Unk 12
65522 P25 Serv 13
65524 P25 Unk 14
65526 P25 Unk 15
65527 P25 Unk 16
However here's the question, the P25 TG has an about 1 second delay from the Edacs transmission. Why would this be??
Do the P25 SCANNERS need an extra second to decode P25, or is the Edacs the primary site sending the audio to the P25 site for retransmission causing the delay??
It can't (in my feeble mind) be the other way around, P25 system feeding the Edacs audio transmission, if so, then the Edacs should have the delay if any.
Can anyone explain, or any ideas ??
EDIT: Forgot to mention the Edacs was on my BC796 and the P25 was on my GRE600 (maybe they have different decode timing)
Just thinking, better stop, makes my head hurt...
Dave
PS: I have finally reprogrammed my bc796 for the NEW Edacs system and all TGs, will be going on a road trip to Ft Baker soon to SIT on Edacs Chls and try match some of the UNK P25 TGs (or the other way around) I posted a few posts ago. Repost, this time TG order and with 2 more added
31558 P25 Unk 1
31572 P25 Unk 2
31573 P25 Unk 3
31921 P25 Unk 4
31922 P25 Unk 5
65501 P25 Unk 6
65502 P25 Unk 7
65504 P25 Unk 8
65505 P25 Unk 8.5 <-- EDIT Just added
65510 P25 Unk 9
65514 P25 Unk 10
65517 P25 Unk 11
65519 P25 Unk 12
65522 P25 Serv 13
65524 P25 Unk 14
65526 P25 Unk 15
65527 P25 Unk 16
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Retired911Guy
Member
BTW:
Pro96com is now showing 851.1750 as the Control Channel, neither of the ones listed in the db are as of this time being used.
I would recommend all users that have programed in only the control channels in their trunk freq area to put in ALL the Freqs listed on all sites (101,202,303), I think the radio techs are still changing things around to see what works the best, I do know both OPD and OFD are keeping logs as to radio problems and locations, heard them both saying they would log the problem in the radio log.
If you have suddenly lost your OAK P25, this is why.
Dave
Pro96com is now showing 851.1750 as the Control Channel, neither of the ones listed in the db are as of this time being used.
I would recommend all users that have programed in only the control channels in their trunk freq area to put in ALL the Freqs listed on all sites (101,202,303), I think the radio techs are still changing things around to see what works the best, I do know both OPD and OFD are keeping logs as to radio problems and locations, heard them both saying they would log the problem in the radio log.
If you have suddenly lost your OAK P25, this is why.
Dave
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What site is 851.175 from?
Retired911Guy
Member
Retired911Guy
Member
Right now Pro96com shows 31558 & 31559 being patched to 65505
So Don't know why they would change patch TGs, but it still seems to be a work in progress.
Dave
Retired911Guy
Member
EDIT: 17:30 pst 31559 is now patched to 65513 with no patches showing for 31558
They seem to change patches on their whims, I don't think we will understand what's going until we get someone on the inside explain the whole system and PD policies in great detail. Won't post anymore minor patch changes, but will still try to figure what some of the unk P25 TGs are.
Dave
They seem to change patches on their whims, I don't think we will understand what's going until we get someone on the inside explain the whole system and PD policies in great detail. Won't post anymore minor patch changes, but will still try to figure what some of the unk P25 TGs are.
Dave
Thanks a lot! (If you don't mind telling me too or posting the answer here.) I wouldn't be surprised since they appear to be saying "Switching back to Vehicle One" that they renamed the OPD talkgroups when they reprogrammed the systems.
To those of you that don't know, SFPD has a pretty uncommon tradition left over from the days of low band vehicle radios and UHF portable radios of putting their mobile traffic on the odd numbered channels (A1, A3, A5, A7) and the portable traffic on the even numbered channels (A2, A4, A6, A8). For example an officer in Central division downtown would have is vehicle radio on A1 and his portable on A2, and talk to dispatch on either one (this is a tradition thing only, since with the trunking system either radio could talk on either talkgroup). I think we may want to consider that the "Vehicle One" channel name could be evidence of the new guys in charge adopting a similar policy. (So who knows, maybe Ch 2 formerly Patrol 2 is now "Portable Two?")
I personally don't care for this method and if I were an officer I would want to hear everyone working within my division on the same channel. However when you compare this with what some of the other departments out there do - LA County Sheriff with their "busy tone" (beep! beep! beep!) for example - it doesn't seem so bad.
Also, I agree on holding off on adding the 65xxx P25 talkgroups to the DB until we know more. However the pool of OPD patch talkgroups on the EDACS side appears to be limited to 15-153, 15-154 and 15-155, with one of each being dedicated to patching Patrol 1 & 2, Patrol 4 & 5 and Service 1 & 2. So I think it's pretty well understood on the EDACS side, just not the P25 system.
Retired911Guy said:
Fantastic, thanks for verifying. If you don't mind, I'll just pat myself on the back for predicting that.
But in all seriousness, even though the P25 patch talkgroup changed, the fact that 31558 and 31559 are consistently patched together seems like strong evidence that they are indeed Service 1 & 2.
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Retired911Guy
Member
Inigo,
There are just so many things about the above post that I must reply to, but I couldn't possibly complete it all tonight, so I will reply tomorrow...
BTW: Don't tell Martin but I think I have a fix for the BCs NOT picking up the OAK P25 System correctly.Because of Martins Hill my radio signals are blocked, so I must go on Road trips to Test and Receive New TGs. I'm going to see if Google Maps will except Martins Hill as an official geographic location to add to their map database.
If Martin were to send me a PM apologizing for HIS Hill blocking my radio signals I MAY consider telling him about it and of course all others because they don't have hills blocking my radio signals.
I won't be able to test the fix until I go on my road trip to Ft Baker to test it and try to ID some of the UNK TGs on P25.
Of course if the BC P25 fix doesn't work, watch this pendant swinging, your eyes are getting heavy, you are getting sleepy, you will now forget that I said I had a fix for the BCs on OAK P25 System.
To all others, please forgive Myself, Inigo and Martin (aka-mlangeveld) for jacking each other up, we're just three Marin County Boys sharing radio info. OR maybe I should have said TWO Marin County BOYS and one MAN.
Well had a couple of beers, time to go to bed now, seeing a pattern here?
Dave
There are just so many things about the above post that I must reply to, but I couldn't possibly complete it all tonight, so I will reply tomorrow...
BTW: Don't tell Martin but I think I have a fix for the BCs NOT picking up the OAK P25 System correctly.Because of Martins Hill my radio signals are blocked, so I must go on Road trips to Test and Receive New TGs. I'm going to see if Google Maps will except Martins Hill as an official geographic location to add to their map database.
If Martin were to send me a PM apologizing for HIS Hill blocking my radio signals I MAY consider telling him about it and of course all others because they don't have hills blocking my radio signals.
I won't be able to test the fix until I go on my road trip to Ft Baker to test it and try to ID some of the UNK TGs on P25.
Of course if the BC P25 fix doesn't work, watch this pendant swinging, your eyes are getting heavy, you are getting sleepy, you will now forget that I said I had a fix for the BCs on OAK P25 System.
To all others, please forgive Myself, Inigo and Martin (aka-mlangeveld) for jacking each other up, we're just three Marin County Boys sharing radio info. OR maybe I should have said TWO Marin County BOYS and one MAN.
Well had a couple of beers, time to go to bed now, seeing a pattern here?
Dave
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naparish
Member
Newbie question
I haven't yet bought a scanner that's capable of monitoring the new P25 system, and now that they've reprogrammed the old system, my Pro-97 is completely useless (for Oakland, anyway) until I have a chance to update the programming (using Win97 and the RR database).
My question relates to the old (reprogrammed) system -- how long will they keep it around? When will they be ONLY using the P25 system?
The good news is that I shouldn't have any trouble with reception -- my office is on the top floor of 1111 Broadway.
I haven't yet bought a scanner that's capable of monitoring the new P25 system, and now that they've reprogrammed the old system, my Pro-97 is completely useless (for Oakland, anyway) until I have a chance to update the programming (using Win97 and the RR database).
My question relates to the old (reprogrammed) system -- how long will they keep it around? When will they be ONLY using the P25 system?
The good news is that I shouldn't have any trouble with reception -- my office is on the top floor of 1111 Broadway.
Retired911Guy
Member
Well, you're a lucky man right now being at 1111 Broadway!!
The problem we all have is we don't know what they're doing with the Edacs system, whether it will stay and be part of OAKs whole system or whether it will at some point go away, at least for PD & FD. The P25 system has fewer freqs than the edacs system has, so it may be that PD & FD will mostly use P25 and the rest of Non public safety will stay on Edacs, we just don't know.
Many believe that Oakland wouldn't spend all the money that they DON"T have to completely rebuild the Edacs system just for Public Works, the Dog Catcher, and misc City people, that it will continue to play a part with PD & FD, but it's in what manner we don't know.
Considering that PD & FD have been given all new TGs and it looks like the techs put some thought into the organizing of the TGs for PD & FD and all other users, they may always be on Edacs in some manner.
Right now OPD Patrol 1,2,3,4,5 are all on/repeated on edacs and OFD 1,2,3,5,8 I have heard myself.
Get your scanner reprogrammed, you're missing all the action.
Hope this helps.
Dave
The problem we all have is we don't know what they're doing with the Edacs system, whether it will stay and be part of OAKs whole system or whether it will at some point go away, at least for PD & FD. The P25 system has fewer freqs than the edacs system has, so it may be that PD & FD will mostly use P25 and the rest of Non public safety will stay on Edacs, we just don't know.
Many believe that Oakland wouldn't spend all the money that they DON"T have to completely rebuild the Edacs system just for Public Works, the Dog Catcher, and misc City people, that it will continue to play a part with PD & FD, but it's in what manner we don't know.
Considering that PD & FD have been given all new TGs and it looks like the techs put some thought into the organizing of the TGs for PD & FD and all other users, they may always be on Edacs in some manner.
Right now OPD Patrol 1,2,3,4,5 are all on/repeated on edacs and OFD 1,2,3,5,8 I have heard myself.
Get your scanner reprogrammed, you're missing all the action.
Hope this helps.
Dave
I concur. The Service 1 talkgroup ID listed in the database was likely a temporary patch.
I refuse to apologize for my hill blocking your radio signals. Clearly, you need a higher antenna. Talk to the Community Development Agency about putting up a 100' tower; that should do it.
I don't know if you guys saw it, but someone posted a PowerPoint a while back outlining the future of Oakland's radio system, and it described the following:
APL (Broadway): 9 channels
GWIN: 3 channels
Fire Station 28: 1 channel
Seneca: 4 channels
The plan wasn't entirely clear, but I assumed the whole system would be upgraded to P25. However with things the way they are today, who knows where they will end up. Fire Station 28 is the site on Grass Valley Road listed on the license.
Retired911Guy
Member
Oakland techs worked the entire night (that must cost a penny or two). Here is what happened:
2am this morning OPD is off Patrol 5 and back to Patrol 4
Solo dispatcher all night/morning P1 & P4 patched together also patched to 15-154
P1 & P4 do NOT come out on P25 but 15-154 does, but changes TG assignment 5-6 times.
The assumed Service 1 & 2 not heard on edacs at all, but the P25 TGs for them are also patched to 5-6 different TGs.
About 20 new P25 TGs show up on Pro96com
I Believe the techs may be using the patches and multiple TGs to test new TGs and/or new radios at sites. But no new freqs or sites show up on Pro96com.
I am picking up the P25 system better than ever, even though it's still only about 25%, some very loud and clear, some not. OR it may just be due to cool clear night and morning.
But the techs did do a lot of work adding 20 or so P25 TGs and testing all night.
Dave
2am this morning OPD is off Patrol 5 and back to Patrol 4
Solo dispatcher all night/morning P1 & P4 patched together also patched to 15-154
P1 & P4 do NOT come out on P25 but 15-154 does, but changes TG assignment 5-6 times.
The assumed Service 1 & 2 not heard on edacs at all, but the P25 TGs for them are also patched to 5-6 different TGs.
About 20 new P25 TGs show up on Pro96com
I Believe the techs may be using the patches and multiple TGs to test new TGs and/or new radios at sites. But no new freqs or sites show up on Pro96com.
I am picking up the P25 system better than ever, even though it's still only about 25%, some very loud and clear, some not. OR it may just be due to cool clear night and morning.
But the techs did do a lot of work adding 20 or so P25 TGs and testing all night.
Dave
naparish
Member
Agreed, I need to bring my bleeping scanner home and reprogram it, since the Win97 software is on my home PC. And yes, your message was helpful - thx!
-- Neal
Retired911Guy
Member
as of 12:30pm pst OPD Patrol 4 changed back to Patrol 5 with a second dispatcher and ended the 15-154 patch, however at around 1:25pm pst Patrol 1 & 5 were patched together with one dispatcher announcing that "due to radio problems we are patching Patrol 1 & 5" 15-154 nor any other 15-xxx patch is on.
A couple of more TGs were added.
Oak Fire as already in the db
031681 Oak FD 1
031682 Oak FD 2
031683 Oak FD 3
---
031684 through 031689 showed up overnight, one could probably assume that fills out OFD 1 to 9
So still a lot of work going on....
Dave
A couple of more TGs were added.
Oak Fire as already in the db
031681 Oak FD 1
031682 Oak FD 2
031683 Oak FD 3
---
031684 through 031689 showed up overnight, one could probably assume that fills out OFD 1 to 9
So still a lot of work going on....
Dave
Retired911Guy
Member
Submitted:
031561 OPD Youth Services
031571 OPD TAC 3
031921 P25 Housing PD 1
031922 P25 Housing PD 2
- matched with Edacs 12-031 Youth Services
- matched with Edacs 12-043 OPD TAC 3
- matched with edacs Housing PD 1 15-001
- matched with edacs Housing PD 1 15-002
Not Submitted, to many different patch TGs to verify what's going on.
-------------------------------------------
Patches Heard
065509 P25 Patch 15-154
065512 P25 Patch 15-154
065523 P25 Patch 15-154
065529 P25 Patch 15-154
065530 P25 Patch 15-154
065501 Serv 1-2 Patch
065508 Serv 1-2 Patch <--- Currently being used since about 6am today
065516 Serv 1-2 Patch
065517 Serv 1-2 Patch
Not submitted, but most likely fill out of OFD (If db admin feels this is enough to post in db please go ahead)
----------------------------------------
031681 Oak FD 1 (Verified - already in db)
031682 Oak FD 2 (Verified - already in db)
031683 Oak FD 3 (Verified - already in db)
031684 Oak FD 4 ? (TGs logged by Pro96com by TG only not name)
031685 Oak FD 5 ? (TGs logged by Pro96com by TG only not name)
031686 Oak FD 6 ? (TGs logged by Pro96com by TG only not name)
031687 Oak FD 7 ? (TGs logged by Pro96com by TG only not name)
031688 Oak FD 8 ? (TGs logged by Pro96com by TG only not name)
031689 Oak FD 9 ? (TGs logged by Pro96com by TG only not name)
Unknown TGs (Ignore the .1 .2 Etc, just inserted new TGs without renumbering the entire bunch)
031563 P25 Unk 1
031564 P25 Unk 2
031565 P25 Unk 3
031560 P25 Unk 4
031570 P25 Unk 4.1
031572 P25 Unk 5
031573 P25 Unk 6
031578 P25 Unk 6.1
031581 P25 Unk 6.2
031589 P25 Unk 7
031636 P25 Unk 8
031691 P25 Unk 8.1
031692 P25 Unk 8.2
031693 P25 Unk 8.3
031857 P25 Radio Testing (BTW this matches Edacs 14-081 which is NOT assigned, just hear radio testing)
065502 P25 Unk 13
065504 P25 Unk 14
065505 P25 Unk 15
065510 P25 Unk 16
065513 P25 Unk 17
065514 P25 Unk 18
065515 P25 Unk 18.1
065519 P25 Unk 22
065522 P25 Unk 23
065524 P25 Unk 25
065526 P25 Unk 26
065527 P25 Unk 27
Dave
031561 OPD Youth Services
031571 OPD TAC 3
031921 P25 Housing PD 1
031922 P25 Housing PD 2
- matched with Edacs 12-031 Youth Services
- matched with Edacs 12-043 OPD TAC 3
- matched with edacs Housing PD 1 15-001
- matched with edacs Housing PD 1 15-002
Not Submitted, to many different patch TGs to verify what's going on.
-------------------------------------------
Patches Heard
065509 P25 Patch 15-154
065512 P25 Patch 15-154
065523 P25 Patch 15-154
065529 P25 Patch 15-154
065530 P25 Patch 15-154
065501 Serv 1-2 Patch
065508 Serv 1-2 Patch <--- Currently being used since about 6am today
065516 Serv 1-2 Patch
065517 Serv 1-2 Patch
Not submitted, but most likely fill out of OFD (If db admin feels this is enough to post in db please go ahead)
----------------------------------------
031681 Oak FD 1 (Verified - already in db)
031682 Oak FD 2 (Verified - already in db)
031683 Oak FD 3 (Verified - already in db)
031684 Oak FD 4 ? (TGs logged by Pro96com by TG only not name)
031685 Oak FD 5 ? (TGs logged by Pro96com by TG only not name)
031686 Oak FD 6 ? (TGs logged by Pro96com by TG only not name)
031687 Oak FD 7 ? (TGs logged by Pro96com by TG only not name)
031688 Oak FD 8 ? (TGs logged by Pro96com by TG only not name)
031689 Oak FD 9 ? (TGs logged by Pro96com by TG only not name)
Unknown TGs (Ignore the .1 .2 Etc, just inserted new TGs without renumbering the entire bunch)
031563 P25 Unk 1
031564 P25 Unk 2
031565 P25 Unk 3
031560 P25 Unk 4
031570 P25 Unk 4.1
031572 P25 Unk 5
031573 P25 Unk 6
031578 P25 Unk 6.1
031581 P25 Unk 6.2
031589 P25 Unk 7
031636 P25 Unk 8
031691 P25 Unk 8.1
031692 P25 Unk 8.2
031693 P25 Unk 8.3
031857 P25 Radio Testing (BTW this matches Edacs 14-081 which is NOT assigned, just hear radio testing)
065502 P25 Unk 13
065504 P25 Unk 14
065505 P25 Unk 15
065510 P25 Unk 16
065513 P25 Unk 17
065514 P25 Unk 18
065515 P25 Unk 18.1
065519 P25 Unk 22
065522 P25 Unk 23
065524 P25 Unk 25
065526 P25 Unk 26
065527 P25 Unk 27
Dave
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Hey Bill,
Earlier in this thread Martin identified Patrol 1 & 2 (patched together) belongs to BFO 1, and Patrol 4 & 5 (patched together) belongs to BFO 2. He said when they weren't patched, BFO 1 dispatch was on Patrol 1 and BFO 2 dispatch was on Patrol 5.
Thanks for spotting that, it didn't even occur to me that he was mistaking "BFO" for "Vehicle." That previous post where I speculated they changed the channel names can be discarded. And I'm glad, because keeping the existing channel names makes the system easier to figure out.
Earlier in this thread Martin identified Patrol 1 & 2 (patched together) belongs to BFO 1, and Patrol 4 & 5 (patched together) belongs to BFO 2. He said when they weren't patched, BFO 1 dispatch was on Patrol 1 and BFO 2 dispatch was on Patrol 5.
Thanks for spotting that, it didn't even occur to me that he was mistaking "BFO" for "Vehicle." That previous post where I speculated they changed the channel names can be discarded. And I'm glad, because keeping the existing channel names makes the system easier to figure out.
Well thank my friend from OPD. Shes the one who told me that's what it was This thread is getting so long, I didn't remember that part in the thread
This thread is getting so long, I didn't remember that part in the thread Hey Bill,
Earlier in this thread Martin identified Patrol 1 & 2 (patched together) belongs to BFO 1, and Patrol 4 & 5 (patched together) belongs to BFO 2. He said when they weren't patched, BFO 1 dispatch was on Patrol 1 and BFO 2 dispatch was on Patrol 5.
Thanks for spotting that, it didn't even occur to me that he was mistaking "BFO" for "Vehicle." That previous post where I speculated they changed the channel names can be discarded. And I'm glad, because keeping the existing channel names makes the system easier to figure out.
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