Ocean City system updates

[maus92]

IDK, one reason for the channel remapping was for safety reasons - locating a monitored channel at knob positions 1 and 16, FD_1 in this case. That ensures that if a FF in distress rotates the channel knob fully in either direction, they can communicate with someone (probably a dispatcher). The radios still scan, and personnel still transmit on the wrong channels.

 

[motorcoachdoug]

It seems that Ocean City is now going to be on the Worcester system full time looking at the new information. I wonder why the change over and were they having trouble in the past???

 

[PtBreak]

It seems that Ocean City is now going to be on the Worcester system full time looking at the new information. I wonder why the change over and were they having trouble in the past???

?

 

[maus92]

Two separate systems. Two cores. There is some talk group sharing on the Worcester system mainly to extend the coverage area for OC units when out in the county.

 

[motorcoachdoug]

Maus if you look at the OC TG page it is saying that system is no longer used and every TG that OC Had is now over on the Worcester system. Wondering what is going on ????

 

[ocguard]

Maus if you look at the OC TG page it is saying that system is no longer used and every TG that OC Had is now over on the Worcester system. Wondering what is going on ????

We went through this on someone’s wild hair with the EDACS systems, too. It’s 100% wrong and inaccurate, even more so now. THEY ARE SEPARATE SYSTEMS. This is even clearer with them being P25 as there are two separate SYSids listed. Does such a listing exist anywhere else in the RRDB?

 

[maus92]

The submission that changed the way the Worcester County and Ocean City systems are now presented in Radio Reference is technically incorrect as the two systems do not share the same SysID. They are owned, managed and funded separately. The subscribers used can be different as some Worcester radios are more recent with additional features. To a scanner user however, they can be organized and presented as a single wide area system, but as I said that would be incorrect.

 

[ocguard]

The submission that changed the way the Worcester County and Ocean City systems are now presented in Radio Reference is technically incorrect as the two systems do not share the same SysID. They are owned, managed and funded separately. The subscribers used can be different as some Worcester radios are more recent with additional features. To a scanner user however, they can be organized and presented as a single wide area system, but as I said that would be incorrect.

I guess my argument would be that radio reference is FAR more than a scanner enthusiast resource now. It should list technically accurate information. There is no benefit in the most recent update.

 

[maus92]

I would be curious if a Unication pager would be programmed correctly if one uses their download function. SysIDs are important with Unications; not so much with scanners or some software packages.

 

[One13Truck]

I always hate how I have to program these systems as a listener only but not a system user. Would be so much easier if it was completely walled off from each other. How dare they set up on the Central side to make it convenient for Ocean City units? Much better for the users.

As a listener I wish it actually was all one giant combined simulcast for everyone so I only needed to program one Favorite List instead of doing one for the City only and a second for the County. Probably an easier way to do it but only being there 1-2 weeks a year I just roll with it & keep an ear on the VHF with the 436 & catch enough to hit the hold on the P25 if anything sounds interesting.

 

[DisasterGuy]

Offering an official Worcester County answer… There is a single multi-region radio system that serves Worcester County and the Town of Ocean City. This system operates with a single user and group database, single key management facility, single Active Directory server, etc. With Harris systems, the WACN is what defines a System while the system ID defines a region within that system. The systems haven’t for many years operated separately from each other (and to attempt to do so would take a LOT of work). As such, there are no patches between the system but rather it is simply one system.

On a similar note, the interface to ESVA is an interface between two different linked systems. The Worcester/OC System is connected via ISSI to the ESVA system. This is why you will see ESVA talkgroups and users appear on the Worcester/OC system. When that appears,’it isn’t a patch, it is users roaming between the networked systems.

You may see additional changes in the near future as well. Worcester/OC has added deployable sites as an additional region to the joint system. There are two site on wheels units that add 700MHz P25 Trunking sites as a new region (system id) along with 800MHz, VHF, and UHF interop repeaters. An additional region is also in the works for mobile console systems with dedicated core and donor radios as a joint Worcester/OC asset.

 

[DisasterGuy]

As a listener I wish it actually was all one giant combined simulcast for everyone so I only needed to program one Favorite List instead of doing one for the City only and a second for the County. Probably an easier way to do it but only being there 1-2 weeks a year I just roll with it & keep an ear on the VHF with the 436 & catch enough to hit the hold on the P25 if anything sounds interesting.

In the next few years you are likely to just it called a 0North” and “South” simulcast cell rather the County and Town cell.

 

[DisasterGuy]

Two separate systems. Two cores. There is some talk group sharing on the Worcester system mainly to extend the coverage area for OC units when out in the county.

That isn’t accurate. There are a total of 4 NSCs (cores). Talkgroups aren’t shared, there is a single database that provisions all users and talkgroups for all regions of the system.

 

[maus92]

Curious why OC justified its upgrading of system software a few years back by testifying to the council that they would lose some connectivity with the Worcester system if the upgrade was not completed in sync version-wise with the county - that suggests at least some degree of separation (certainly financial). Listeners should not expect to receive all OC users on the Worcester site; typically the OCBP is not heard on OC's 800 site or on the county's simulcast site, nor are OC buses, PW, etc. Perhaps it is because those users rarely venture off the island and don't lose their affiliation with with the OC 700 site. - but the buses and trash trucks do run into West OC.

 

[maus92]

That isn’t accurate. There are a total of 4 NSCs (cores). Talkgroups aren’t shared, there is a single database that provisions all users and talkgroups for all regions of the system.

Would it be accurate - or fair - to say that the NSCs are distributed between the two jurisdictions? Granted that Harris architecture is different than Motorola's and perhaps more similar to Atlas, but I would guess there is a primary and backup NSC in each jurisdiction. I used the wrong terminology wrt "sharing". I meant that some OC tgs are allowed on the Worcester system, while others are not. Again, perhaps this is because some OC users never venture outside of the OC's 700 site's coverage area, or permissions in the single database don't allow it.

 

[DisasterGuy]

Yes, there are multiple funding sources. For example (a matter of public record) a new microwave link connecting the island and west ocean city is being 50% split funding between the county and town. Generally the county fully funds the entire fiber network for 911, radio, CAD, etc.

There is a technical ability to “steer” traffic. Site priorities are able to be set for different groups in various different ways and yes this is used. For example, the Site 10 West Ocean City site tends to attract more boardwalk traffic than Site 30 South. As a result, typically in-town groups are set to be favored on Site 30

 

[motorcoachdoug]

This is a tad bit off topic , Since Sussex is now on a P25 system, can OC -WO fire units running MAID just turn to the fire tac channel on the Sussex System instead of having to go to TG 13852 which is the Sussex Patch? and ditto when Sussex is running MAID into WO-OC ?????

 

[DisasterGuy]

This is a tad bit off topic , Since Sussex is now on a P25 system, can OC -WO fire units running MAID just turn to the fire tac channel on the Sussex System instead of having to go to TG 13852 which is the Sussex Patch? and ditto when Sussex is running MAID into WO-OC ?????

That is correct. And as part of that, the patch (for fire) is being disconnected very soon.

 

[maus92]

OCEM Radio Maintenance personnel (OC maintains its system along with their vendor Eastern Communications) reprogrammed OCFD Fire subscribers to include direct access to Sussex County fire tgs as mentioned earlier in this thread. The Sussex patch hasn't been used for months. Tangentially, the USCG tg on OC's system is never used and coordination for water rescues uses a FIRST system tg in the Ocean City area. The Trooper tg is no longer used, and I would guess the DSP patch will eventually go away as well.

@DisasterGuy is absolutely correct in the sense that the Worcester and OC systems operate in as an interconnected countywide / wide area network and he should know. Radio personnel from both jurisdictions work together to operate the system, and as he mentioned there are centralized management facilities to enable wide area functionality. However, I will continue to push back against the idea that they are "one system". These systems were authorized and funded separately; I believe that they were commissioned at different times; the city system was designed with dense portable-in-building coverage; and the city's system did not have coverage and interference problems that plagued the county's system until some re-engineering, antenna adjustments, and additional sites were constructed in Mystic Harbor and Snow Hill. Many local and wide area systems share site infrastructure and backhaul paths but remain separate entities. The relationship between the city and county systems is probably more akin to systems like ICORRS or perhaps the city of Wilmington and the state of Delaware. It is not like Frederick or Washington counties where Frederick (city) and Hagerstown host their local departments on a countywide system; nor is it like Maryland where some counties use FIRST as their communications system - although counties can fund local enhancements for their operations.

As for scanner users, Ocean City is now a site in the Worcester system if you download the system again. The Ocean City system has been removed from the RRDB. I recognize the logic behind the change, but scanner users need to be aware that nothing changes as far as where certain tgs can be received.

 

[DisasterGuy]

OCEM Radio Maintenance personnel (OC maintains its system along with their vendor Eastern Communications) reprogrammed OCFD Fire subscribers to include direct access to Sussex County fire tgs as mentioned earlier in this thread. The Sussex patch hasn't been used for months. Tangentially, the USCG tg on OC's system is never used and coordination for water rescues uses a FIRST system tg in the Ocean City area. The Trooper tg is no longer used, and I would guess the DSP patch will eventually go away as well.

@DisasterGuy is absolutely correct in the sense that the Worcester and OC systems operate in as an interconnected countywide / wide area network and he should know. Radio personnel from both jurisdictions work together to operate the system, and as he mentioned there are centralized management facilities to enable wide area functionality. However, I will continue to push back against the idea that they are "one system". These systems were authorized and funded separately; I believe that they were commissioned at different times; the city system was designed with dense portable-in-building coverage; and the city's system did not have coverage and interference problems that plagued the county's system until some re-engineering, antenna adjustments, and additional sites were constructed in Mystic Harbor and Snow Hill. Many local and wide area systems share site infrastructure and backhaul paths but remain separate entities. The relationship between the city and county systems is probably more akin to systems like ICORRS or perhaps the city of Wilmington and the state of Delaware. It is not like Frederick or Washington counties where Frederick (city) and Hagerstown host their local departments on a countywide system; nor is it like Maryland where some counties use FIRST as their communications system - although counties can fund local enhancements for their operations.

As for scanner users, Ocean City is now a site in the Worcester system if you download the system again. The Ocean City system has been removed from the RRDB. I recognize the logic behind the change, but scanner users need to be aware that nothing changes as far as where certain tgs can be received.

At this moMent best thought of like other regional systems like found in parts of VA and Texas. There was actually a good bit of consideration keeping the MESIN name for it and if Somerset or Wicomico would have joined, we likely would have. As it is, the parts of MESIN that survive are run through the current system and we are likely going to put MESIN branding on the deployable and disaster support equipment.