Official Starrsoft WIN500 Software Thread

[howleyt]

Win500 Notes Question

I would like to enable the Notes field to be displayed when looking at the CONV and TSYS tabs. Notes do not get displayed on my computer screen unless I choose the All Objects tab. It would be handy to have them display under all three tab locations. Am I missing an option to turn this column on?

Also, I find the checkbox labels in the RR import module to be confusing. The description text doesn't directly match that of the RR web display of the listings so I'm never sure of what I am going to get when I import without playing with it. Also, why does the program require I click the Start button repeatedly to get access to the next field?

I'm a former scanning/trunking veteran but dropped out of the hobby about the time the Pro96 came out. I've recently joined back in with the PSR-500 and am finding it more challenging now that my brain is older and with the object oriented nature of this radio, its enough different that I'm going more slowly than I want. I'm still in the 30 day software eval period, most of the program looks wonderful and I'll be buying it shortly. Hey Don, I would love to get some "tool tips" added so all of the check boxes could reveal a clue about what each checked item does.

 

[DonS]

I would like to enable the Notes field to be displayed when looking at the CONV and TSYS tabs. Notes do not get displayed on my computer screen unless I choose the All Objects tab. It would be handy to have them display under all three tab locations. Am I missing an option to turn this column on?

Yes. First, the "Notes" column is always displayed in the TSYS "grid". For the CONV and TGRP grids, try right-clicking on the column headers in the CONV and TSYS tabs and see what options appear in the popup menu that's created.

Also, I find the checkbox labels in the RR import module to be confusing. The description text doesn't directly match that of the RR web display of the listings so I'm never sure of what I am going to get when I import without playing with it.

Those checkboxes in Win500 select the various "text fields" in the RadioReference database. For talkgroups and conventional channels, the "Display" option gives you the "Alpha Tag" column in the RR web pages, while the "Description" option gives you the web page's "Description" column.

Also, why does the program require I click the Start button repeatedly to get access to the next field?

It doesn't. You should be able to select an item from one field (e.g. "State"), then TAB over to the next field (e.g. "County").

 

[RKG]

"I'd be interested in the difference between NFM and FM myself.
There's no defined bandwidth in the manual that I can see.
I suspect FM isn't the same as WFM on my 2006, which I miss. There are some things in the 900mhz band I monitor occasionally that deviate right out of the passband, WFM on my 2006 works well for these signals."
=====================================


"Narrow" and "wide" are comparatives, and their definitions depend on the context and era in which they are used.

Today, for purposes of Part 90 Land Mobile Radio, "wide band" usually refers to an FM analog voice channel on 25 KHz spacing, authorized for a maximum deviation of +/- 5 KHz, which results in an occupied corridor of 16 KHz. "Narrow band" in the same context usually refers to an FM analog voice channel on 12.5 KHz spacing, authorized for a maximum deviation of +/- 2.5 KHz, which results in an occupided corridor of 11 KHz.

Most Part 90 channels until recently operated (and many if not most still today operate) as "wide band" channels. The FCC has mandated a migration to "narrow band" channels by 2013.

This is how the terms are used by GRE with respect to the PSR-500 and -600 receivers.

The FCC is contemplating a further narrowbanding at some unspecified time in the figure, with the aspiration of changing channel spacing to 6.25 KHz and max deviation limited to 1.25 KHz. This is going to ge technically difficult, since it would be expected to yield an occupied corridor of 8.25 KHz, which is wider than the channel spacing.

With some receivers (such as the ICOM R-7000), the terms have different meanings: "wide" refers to broadcast FM channel width (which is 200 KHz) and "narrow" refers to a 25 KHz LMR channel (which, today, we call "wide"). Likewise, there have been previous episodes of channel creation by channel narrowing, both in Part 90 (in the early 1960s) and other services.

Hence the potential for confusion and concomitant need to specify the context in which the terms are uesd.

 

[howleyt]

Yes. First, the "Notes" column is always displayed in the TSYS "grid". For the CONV and TGRP grids, try right-clicking on the column headers in the CONV and TSYS tabs and see what options appear in the popup menu that's created.


Those checkboxes in Win500 select the various "text fields" in the RadioReference database. For talkgroups and conventional channels, the "Display" option gives you the "Alpha Tag" column in the RR web pages, while the "Description" option gives you the web page's "Description" column.


It doesn't. You should be able to select an item from one field (e.g. "State"), then TAB over to the next field (e.g. "County").

Thanks Don, the Notes column in Tsys and Conv appear to be off by default and your suggestion to righ-click the column headers allowed me to switch it on. The Tab suggestion for RR import is a good one, it was not obvious to me that that was how it worked. I am now set on both of those points.

Regarding the Display/Alpha Tag question, I understand that is what it does, my comment was merely that your label could say Alpha Tag and it would become immediately obvious to the inexperienced user of Win500 such as myself.

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm well on my way to getting my huge list put together. It has been around 7 years since I've played with trunking so I'm trying to get back up to speed. It doesn't help that I moved from Detroit to Seattle so now my 20 years worth of frequency record keeping is no good to me and I have to find all new data for my new home!

Tom

 

[Nexus4]

Resolved: Only Some Objects Logged to Log History

Hi Don,

Using Win500 v1.67 with PSR-500 (at latest GRE update level).
Created a 'Log' subdirectory and selected 'To Win500ActivityLog.txt file' and 'make daily subdirectories' checked.
Verified that daily subfolder and file were created.

In my particular setup, objects IDs in each SL are created in the format LLxxx where LL is the SL number (makes it easier for me to manipulate). For example, all objects that belong to SL 01 (CHP in my case), have the format 01xxx.

Noted the following issue today:
While following a very active Saturday night, noted that only a small subset of activity is actually logged. In particular, only objects that belong to SL01 were logged, while many others were received.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

Nevermind... solved my problem - Documenting the resolution for future reference:

Issue was the following: on upload from Win500 to scanner, the IDs created for the objects in the scanner did not map to the object IDs in the desktop file, except for the set of records that was created first which happens to be SL01 set in my case.
As a result, Win500 did not find a match between the scanner object IDs and local template object IDs, and skipped the logging.

Resolution is simple: download from scanner to desktop to sync object IDs. Logging works as expected.

 

[Nexus4]

Multi-site TSYS Import From RR Error - Freq Don't Match Bandplan

Hi Don,

Getting the following error dialog in Win500 (v1.67) when importing a multi-site TSYS from RR:
"One or more of the system's VHF/UHF frequencies don't match the bandplan information sent in the RR XML. It appears that either the bandplan info is incomplete, or te system frequency data is incorrect..."

The error is reported when any of the sites is checked at import, for example upon import of the following:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<!--Win9x dumped XML, based on retrieval from RadioReference.com
Copyright 2006 RadioReference.com LLC
-->
<trs name="San Mateo County of Public Safety " type="1" flavor="5" voice="3">
<sysid>860D</sysid>
<bandplan base="482.000000" offset="380" spacing="12.500" />
<bandplan base="488.000000" offset="560" spacing="12.500" />
<sites>
<site num="1" desc="South Zone" callsign="WPPG446">
<channel lcn="08" freq="488.262500" use="a" />
<channel lcn="09" freq="488.287500" use="d" />
<channel lcn="10" freq="488.987500" use="a" />
</site>
</sites>
<talkgroups>
<tg dec="14352" subfleet="" group="Office of Emergency Services" desc="OES 1" disp="" />
</talkgroups>
</trs>

The RR multi-site system dump is as follows:

<trs sid="1138" name="San Mateo County of Public Safety " type="1" flavor="5" voice="3" updated="2008-06-04 06:25:56">
<country coid="1">United States</country>
<state stid="6" state_code="CA">California</state>
<county ctid="223">San Mateo</county>
<city>Various</city>
<sysid ct="Various" wacn="">860D</sysid>
<bandplan base="482.0000" offset="380" spacing="12.5" /><bandplan base="488.0000" offset="560" spacing="12.5" /><sites>
<site num="001" desc="South Zone" callsign="WPPG446" county="San Mateo" location="South County" neigh="2 3 6 7 8" ct="128.57" modulation="">
<channel lcn="01" freq="482.21250" use="" />
<channel lcn="02" freq="482.76250" use="" />
<channel lcn="03" freq="488.01250" use="" />
<channel lcn="04" freq="488.08750" use="" />
<channel lcn="05" freq="488.13750" use="" />
<channel lcn="06" freq="488.21250" use="" />
<channel lcn="07" freq="488.23750" use="" />
<channel lcn="08" freq="488.26250" use="a" />
<channel lcn="09" freq="488.28750" use="d" />
<channel lcn="10" freq="488.98750" use="a" />
</site>
<site num="002" desc="North Zone" callsign="WPPG450" county="San Mateo" location="North Co " neigh="1 3 4 5 6 7 8" ct="128.57" modulation="">
<channel lcn="01" freq="482.01250" use="" />
<channel lcn="02" freq="482.06250" use="" />
<channel lcn="03" freq="482.31250" use="a" />
<channel lcn="04" freq="488.22500" use="" />
<channel lcn="05" freq="488.25000" use="a" />
<channel lcn="06" freq="488.27500" use="d" />
</site>
<site num="003" desc="Town Ridge" callsign="WPPG450" county="San Mateo" location="La Honda" neigh="1 2 4 5 6 7 8" ct="116.13" modulation="">
<channel lcn="01" freq="482.01250" use="d" />
<channel lcn="02" freq="482.06250" use="a" />
<channel lcn="03" freq="488.22500" use="a" />
<channel lcn="04" freq="488.25000" use="" />
<channel lcn="05" freq="488.27500" use="" />
</site>
<site num="004" desc="Brisbane" callsign="WPUX203" county="San Mateo" location="Brisbane" neigh="1 2 3 5 6 7 8" ct="97.3" modulation="">
<notes>WPTR974</notes>
<channel lcn="01" freq="482.42500" use="" />
<channel lcn="02" freq="482.45000" use="" />
<channel lcn="03" freq="482.47500" use="" />
<channel lcn="04" freq="482.50000" use="d" />
<channel lcn="05" freq="488.62500" use="d" />
<channel lcn="06" freq="488.65000" use="d" />
</site>
<site num="005" desc="Youth Hostel" callsign="WPTR974" county="San Mateo" location="American Youth Hostel" neigh="2" ct="90.00" modulation="">
<notes>WPUX203</notes>
<channel lcn="01" freq="482.42500" use="" />
<channel lcn="02" freq="482.45000" use="" />
<channel lcn="03" freq="482.47500" use="" />
<channel lcn="04" freq="482.50000" use="" />
<channel lcn="05" freq="488.62500" use="" />
<channel lcn="06" freq="488.65000" use="d" />
</site>
<site num="006" desc="Pescadero" callsign="WPTR974" county="San Mateo" location="Pescadero Road" neigh="1 2 8" ct="83.72" modulation="">
<notes>WPUX203</notes>
<channel lcn="01" freq="482.42500" use="" />
<channel lcn="02" freq="482.45000" use="" />
<channel lcn="03" freq="482.47500" use="" />
<channel lcn="04" freq="482.50000" use="d" />
<channel lcn="05" freq="488.62500" use="d" />
<channel lcn="06" freq="488.65000" use="d" />
</site>
<site num="007" desc="Woodside" callsign="WPUX202" county="San Mateo" location="Woodside" neigh="1 2 3 4 5 6 8" ct="76.76" modulation="">
<channel lcn="01" freq="482.48750" use="d" />
<channel lcn="02" freq="482.52500" use="d" />
<channel lcn="03" freq="482.73750" use="" />
<channel lcn="04" freq="488.57500" use="" />
</site>
<site num="008" desc="Pigeon Point" callsign="WPUX202" county="San Mateo" location="Pescadero" neigh="1 6" ct="83.72" modulation="">
<channel lcn="01" freq="482.37500" use="d" />
<channel lcn="02" freq="482.73750" use="d" />
<channel lcn="03" freq="488.57500" use="d" />
<channel lcn="04" freq="488.60000" use="d" />
</site>

Two requests, please:
1. Could you share the specific test condition that failed and generated the error message?
2. Being a bit of a new kid on the block, could you explain what is the underlying issue and suggest how to address it?

Thanks,
Dan

 

[eyes00only]

New to LTR

Does anyone know how to do a LTR system using Win500 software? I tried but the T (for trunking) is not always on the display. It does seem to come up when it stops on a talkgroup, but all I'm getting is noise and no voice.

 

[DonS]

Does anyone know how to do a LTR system using Win500 software? I tried but the T (for trunking) is not always on the display. It does seem to come up when it stops on a talkgroup, but all I'm getting is noise and no voice.

The 'T' will only appear on LTR (and any other trunked system type, for that matter) when the scanner receives/decodes "messages". LTR rarely (relative term) sends messages if nobody's talking.

What kind of "noise" is it when the scanner stops on a talkgroup and shows the 'T' icon? Could it be some kind of data?

 

[eyes00only]

The 'T' will only appear on LTR (and any other trunked system type, for that matter) when the scanner receives/decodes "messages". LTR rarely (relative term) sends messages if nobody's talking.

What kind of "noise" is it when the scanner stops on a talkgroup and shows the 'T' icon? Could it be some kind of data?

Thanks Don. This is my first attempt at LTR. I locked out the static talkgroup, and have been getting hits on a towing company, etc. It may have been data, but really didn't sound like it. I have learned how to analyze the control channels, and this is not a strong system in my area. One more question: In the alert dropdown there is DTMF#. What the heck is DTMF#?

JK

 

[Nexus4]

For DTMF, take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_calling.

 

[eyes00only]

I kinda knew what is was, but thought it would be more of a squelch setting than an alert tone. I'm assuming that there will not be an alert unless DTMF is actually being used. So far I've heard nothing on my test talkgroup.

JK

 

[SCPD]

I kinda knew what is was, but thought it would be more of a squelch setting than an alert tone. I'm assuming that there will not be an alert unless DTMF is actually being used. So far I've heard nothing on my test talkgroup.

JK

That is not the way I understand it. DTMF is a particular sound that is among the options of other sounds used as an alert. Squelch settings are in a column further left in the default grid for conventional frequencies.

DTMF is not used for a squelch setting as those consist of CTCSS, DCS, and NAC. DTMF is used to open a receiver once and is not needed once the receiver has been opened. There are various ways to reset the receiver after it has been opened by DTMF. As used to activate a repeater, often times an "exit" or "off" set of DTMF tones is required. DTMF uses tones in the audible range of human hearing while the CTCSS and DCS are sub-audible. NAC is a digital code which is carried in the 0's and 1's of a digital signal. All of these squelch control methods are continuously transmitted while DTMF is used only when it is necessary to open and close a receivers audio. Think of DTMF being a light switch that is used to turn on a light. Its function is then not needed until you want to throw the switch again to turn off the light.

DTMF is often used for alert tones keyed up by the dispatcher on a system. Sometimes single frequency audible tones are used to alert units of a code 2 or code three call. Often DTMF is used for general announcements that are not urgent. The PSR models give you these options as well. For instance, you could attach a DTMF tone on a public works dispatch frequency, use the chirps for a PD dispatch frequency, a high-low for a FD dispatch frequency, and DTMF for a tactical frequency.

I'm not aware of any scanners that are capable of distinguishing DTMF to control audio output. If a scanner were built to detect the use of DTMF on a frequency it would not work unless the scanner locked on to that frequency during the start of a transmission and would not work when the scanner locks on to the frequency later in the transmission. Receivers that use DTMF to open the audio are usually single frequency receivers such as the old volunteer fire department radios used by members to be alerted at home or workplace, this being a common practice before the use of pagers.

The use of DTMF to activate receivers, especially for repeaters, has fallen out of favor since the introduction of the sub-audible methods. Requiring users to enter DTMF, similar to dialing a phone, is much more time consuming and subject to error, than using the sub-audible methods. DTMF repeater control was used after the use of tone burst and before the use sub-audible tones.

Quite often DTMF is used to control repeaters and remote bases to "shut down" or "come up on the air" as well as having the repeater doing things such as transmitting the audio of a NWS receiver, activating and terminating links to other repeaters, and activating the cross band feature of some repeaters. An example of the latter are repeaters that can patch a 440 MHz repeater with a 10 meter transceiver, thus giving the capability to work long distances without the disadvantage of the longer antennas that are required to work 10 meters, especially when operating mobile.

As for digital it is said that there are ten types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't!

 

[DonS]

As for digital it is said that there are ten types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't!

Actually, it's There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't. People who don't understand binary would be confused by the statement, reading "10" as "ten". People who do understand binary would read "10" as "two", and the statement would make perfect sense.

 

[SCPD]

Actually, it's There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't. People who don't understand binary would be confused by the statement, reading "10" as "ten". People who do understand binary would read "10" as "two", and the statement would make perfect sense.

Nerd humor! I will remember to use 10 instead of ten when I present this in the future.

 

[eyes00only]

Thanks guys. That's a big 2-4 :roll:

JK

 

[smason]

I have a weird issue. About 3 times now, after doing an upload to scanner, my PSR600 has said "file system reset to factory default"
1.62 here with cpu version 1.6

Is this a known issue, or do I have something set wrong?

Thanks,

Steve

Does anyone have any ideas on this? Happened again last night, afain seems to happen every 3rd or 4th upload.

Thanks,

Steve

 

[Nexus4]

Does anyone have any ideas on this? Happened again last night, afain seems to happen every 3rd or 4th upload.

I have encountered this issue as well. Noted that this happens when the PSR-500 is scanning when the upload is initiated. I have stopped scanning before starting an upload (press 'PGM'), and this has not occurred again.

Hope this helps.
Dan

 

[DaveNF2G]

It happened to my PSR-600 yesterday. I agree with Dan; the scanner should not be scanning when an upload is initatied.

 

[md_p97]

Don,

With the new RR Database CD-rom coming about, will you be creating an "import" function for any of your software (Win 96, 97, 500)?

 

[DonS]

With the new RR Database CD-rom coming about, will you be creating an "import" function for any of your software (Win 96, 97, 500)?

Yes, I'll be modifying those apps to work with RR's new "Web Service" method - which is what is used on the CD. It's a little ways out, though. My day job is keeping me extremely busy right now.