Old Dot and Star GMRS frequencies

[Kiwibru]

Crawling out of the GMRS cave from 2000 I was surprised to find the following frequencies listed for the Kenwood Pro Talk TK-3100 HT that we have used on and off since they were new with first license from way back then.
When I look at the current listing of GMRS frequencies these are all not there!
Can they still be used by the modern HT or base stations if programmed in for TX and RX? (i.e. the old Kenwoods can sync with the new hardware and be usable?)
I have searched countless links and there seems to be mixed information about this so thought this would be a good source for the low down from you folks. TIA

Red Dot	467.900MHZ	UHF
Blue Dot	467.9250	UHF
Brown Dot	464.500 MHz	UHF
Yellow Dot	464.550 MHz	UHF
J Dot	467.7625 MHz	UHF
K Dot	467.8125 MHz	UHF
Silver Star	467.850 MHz	UHF
Gold Star	467.875 MHz	UHF
Red Star	467.900 MHz	UHF
Blue Star	467.925 MHz	UHF

 

[nd5y]

I'm not familiar with TK-3100. I don't know if it has FCC Part 95 certification required for GMRS use.
A long time ago non-individuals (businesses) could get GMRS licenses. Some low end UHF business radios came with GMRS channels. More info here:

Common Itinerant and Business - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

 

[K9KLC]

Crawling out of the GMRS cave from 2000 I was surprised to find the following frequencies listed for the Kenwood Pro Talk TK-3100 HT that we have used on and off since they were new with first license from way back then.
When I look at the current listing of GMRS frequencies these are all not there!
Can they still be used by the modern HT or base stations if programmed in for TX and RX? (i.e. the old Kenwoods can sync with the new hardware and be usable?)
I have searched countless links and there seems to be mixed information about this so thought this would be a good source for the low down from you folks. TIA

Red Dot	467.900MHZ	UHF
Blue Dot	467.9250	UHF
Brown Dot	464.500 MHz	UHF
Yellow Dot	464.550 MHz	UHF
J Dot	467.7625 MHz	UHF
K Dot	467.8125 MHz	UHF
Silver Star	467.850 MHz	UHF
Gold Star	467.875 MHz	UHF
Red Star	467.900 MHz	UHF
Blue Star	467.925 MHz	UHF

These are not GMRS frequencies that's why they're not on the list. They were as you titled the thread "dot and star frequencies ". If you have something that shows these were ever GMRS I'd like to see it.

 

[Kiwibru]

I guess the confusing part was when we applied for a license back in the day, it was issued as a GMRS license. The manual has the radio listed as a Business Radio Service (BRS) radio with the TK-2100 being VHF and the TK-3100 being UHF with the frequencies I listed. Right on the edge of today's GMRS documented frequencies for the 3100. The radios had the option to change channels within the given spectrum they had in the programing so you had two settings (two frequencies) to choose from with a toggle switch next to the squelch knob. Programing was an interesting process.
We could get batteries for them as the oem units died off from use and diminishing charge capacity so we just kept using them. Not a well defined period for GMRS and the then listed BRS being contained in one licensing process.
I think the Kenwood HR have reached end of service because of the changes even though they are well built and sturdy units. Primitive compared to the new technology. Thanks for the replies!
The licensing information in the manual is:

FCC LICENSE INFORMATION
Your KENWOOD radio operates on communications
frequencies which are subject to FCC (Federal
Communications Commission) Rules & Regulations.
FCC Rules require that all operators using Private Land
Mobile radio frequencies obtain a radio license before
operating their equipment. Application for license must
be made on FCC form 600, and schedules D, E. and G

 

[rf_patriot200]

Crawling out of the GMRS cave from 2000 I was surprised to find the following frequencies listed for the Kenwood Pro Talk TK-3100 HT that we have used on and off since they were new with first license from way back then.
When I look at the current listing of GMRS frequencies these are all not there!
Can they still be used by the modern HT or base stations if programmed in for TX and RX? (i.e. the old Kenwoods can sync with the new hardware and be usable?)
I have searched countless links and there seems to be mixed information about this so thought this would be a good source for the low down from you folks. TIA

Red Dot	467.900MHZ	UHF
Blue Dot	467.9250	UHF
Brown Dot	464.500 MHz	UHF
Yellow Dot	464.550 MHz	UHF
J Dot	467.7625 MHz	UHF
K Dot	467.8125 MHz	UHF
Silver Star	467.850 MHz	UHF
Gold Star	467.875 MHz	UHF
Red Star	467.900 MHz	UHF
Blue Star	467.925 MHz	UHF

NONE of these are Gmrs ,if that's what you're asking. These are Itinerant, Business frequencies which all require a part 90 license.

 

[mmckenna]

Crawling out of the GMRS cave from 2000 I was surprised to find the following frequencies listed for the Kenwood Pro Talk TK-3100 HT that we have used on and off since they were new with first license from way back then.

If you were using these radios on GMRS back in 2000, I suspect you actually had the TK-3101K, which was a GMRS version of the TK-3100K/K2 radio sold at the time.

When I look at the current listing of GMRS frequencies these are all not there!
Can they still be used by the modern HT or base stations if programmed in for TX and RX? (i.e. the old Kenwoods can sync with the new hardware and be usable?)

KPG-48D was the programming software for these radios. Not sure what it let you change. Usually these ProTalk radios only allowed the preprogrammed frequencies to be used and assigned to channel slots. It might have let you select different QT/DQT tones for the individual channels.

There were some of those older ProTalk radios that you could slam in the non-ProTalk firmware and program them as standard radios. It required the correct firmware, KPG-48 software and a bit of skill.

I have searched countless links and there seems to be mixed information about this so thought this would be a good source for the low down from you folks. TIA

The frequencies you listed below are not, and never were GMRS channels and your GMRS license would not have covered them.
The TK-3100 ProTalk radios were pre-programmed with those Part 90 business frequencies and would have required an FCC issued Part 90 business/industrial license to use.

Red Dot	467.900MHZ	UHF
Blue Dot	467.9250	UHF
Brown Dot	464.500 MHz	UHF
Yellow Dot	464.550 MHz	UHF
J Dot	467.7625 MHz	UHF
K Dot	467.8125 MHz	UHF
Silver Star	467.850 MHz	UHF
Gold Star	467.875 MHz	UHF
Red Star	467.900 MHz	UHF
Blue Star	467.925 MHz	UHF

 

[K9KLC]

license back in the day

When was "back in the day"?

 

[ecps92]

When was "back in the day"?

Y2K

 

[ecps92]

If you were using these radios on GMRS back in 2000, I suspect you actually had the TK-3101K, which was a GMRS version of the TK-3100K/K2 radio sold at the time.
View attachment 179757




KPG-48D was the programming software for these radios. Not sure what it let you change. Usually these ProTalk radios only allowed the preprogrammed frequencies to be used and assigned to channel slots. It might have let you select different QT/DQT tones for the individual channels.

There were some of those older ProTalk radios that you could slam in the non-ProTalk firmware and program them as standard radios. It required the correct firmware, KPG-48 software and a bit of skill.



The frequencies you listed below are not, and never were GMRS channels and your GMRS license would not have covered them.
The TK-3100 ProTalk radios were pre-programmed with those Part 90 business frequencies and would have required an FCC issued Part 90 business/industrial license to use.

For one of the better Wiki Guru's, it might be worth adding a footnote about the White, Black and Orange in the RR Wiki to not be confussed/confuzzled with the Business Color/Star channels.....

I didn't see an obvious place to put the note

 

[nokones]

They are Business Radio Freqs and must be licensed. The max power output is 2 watts and for base operations the antenna can not exceed more than 25 feet, and the base station must operate on a secondary basis to mobile units . You can't use the freqs on an aircraft and also can be used for remote radio control of devices or one-way paging with various emissions types.

Except for the 464.500 and 464.550 Meg freqs, they are not itinerant freqs, so I don't know if they need to be coordinated. The 464.500/550 Meg freqs do not need to be coordinated. At this point, my guess is they do since they are not itinerant freqs., but I could be making another second mistake in my life.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

They are Business Radio Freqs and must be licensed. The max power output is 2 watts and for base operations the antenna can not exceed more than 25 feet, and the base station must operate on a secondary basis to mobile units . You can't use the freqs on an aircraft and also can be used for remote radio control of devices or one-way paging with various emissions types.

Except for thd 464.500 and 464.550 Meg freqs, they are not itinerant freqs, so I don't know if they need to be coordinated. At this point, my guess they do since they are not itinerant freqs., but I could be making another second mistake in my life.

464.500/469.500 and 464.550/469.550 are itinerant pairs and do not need to be coordinated. I actually have those both licensed for up to 25W currently.

 

[nokones]

464.500/469.500 and 464.550/469.550 are itinerant pairs and do not need to be coordinated. I actually have those both licensed for up to 25W currently.

That is what I said, I was referring to the 467 freqs that needed to be coordinated.

 

[nd5y]

For one of the better Wiki Guru's, it might be worth adding a footnote about the White, Black and Orange in the RR Wiki to not be confussed/confuzzled with the Business Color/Star channels.....

I'm not sure what you mean. The wiki article I posted in #2 already explains that:

Three FRS/GMRS frequencies below are listed as "color dots". This is because in the past, businesses and other organizations could obtain GMRS licenses and some radios were sold with color coded GMRS channels for business use. Under current FCC rules, businesses are generally not eligible to hold a GMRS license.​

What needs to be added?

 

[ecps92]

I'm not sure what you mean. The wiki article I posted in #2 already explains that:

Three FRS/GMRS frequencies below are listed as "color dots". This is because in the past, businesses and other organizations could obtain GMRS licenses and some radios were sold with color coded GMRS channels for business use. Under current FCC rules, businesses are generally not eligible to hold a GMRS license.​

What needs to be added?

I missed it in the two columns. Had only looked at the left column - before Coffee

 

[K9KLC]

(i.e. the old Kenwoods can sync with the new hardware and be usable?)

Yes, I've got multiple radios here I could program up to match the frequencies currently in your Kenwood's.

 

[Kiwibru]

The GMRS license was provided on June 24, 2000. We ran with it for ten years and failed to renew but that was oversight on my part and the fact that we had not been using the radios. The only thing I did with the programing was to make sure both frequencies that the toggle switch provided were the same. Fast forward to today and we needed to renew the license and did.

I discovered the world of radio technology changing along with the FCC regs, thus my inquiry to all of you.

Not having the original manual or boxes from the radios kind of left me in a black hole anda lot had changed in twenty-five years. If there are current radios that could be programed to include these Kenwood frequencies I would retain them as they work fine and we have good batteries to this day after buying replacements. Most of the radios I have looked at can be programed to monitor RX but not TX at those frequencies. All of this of course assuming it is legal under our GMRS license. I suspect that these frequencies are no longer covered in GMRS for a reason as has been pointed out. Thank you very much for your input.

 

[mmckenna]

The GMRS license was provided on June 24, 2000. We ran with it for ten years and failed to renew but that was oversight on my part and the fact that we had not been using the radios. The only thing I did with the programing was to make sure both frequencies that the toggle switch provided were the same. Fast forward to today and we needed to renew the license and did.

If you had the radio with the toggle switch channel select, you did not have GMRS capable radios. The radios you had (TK-3100 as opposed to the TK-3101) are business band radios and the frequencies they had in them were -not- GMRS frequencies.
Your GMRS license (then and now) do not cover those business frequencies.

I discovered the world of radio technology changing along with the FCC regs, thus my inquiry to all of you.

Not having the original manual or boxes from the radios kind of left me in a black hole anda lot had changed in twenty-five years. If there are current radios that could be programed to include these Kenwood frequencies I would retain them as they work fine and we have good batteries to this day after buying replacements. Most of the radios I have looked at can be programed to monitor RX but not TX at those frequencies. All of this of course assuming it is legal under our GMRS license. I suspect that these frequencies are no longer covered in GMRS for a reason as has been pointed out. Thank you very much for your input.

Those frequencies were never under GMRS.

Your best option is to get some actual GMRS radios to use under your GMRS license.

 

[Kiwibru]

Lucky for me I had the foresight to buy new GMRS radios and those are under the current license. At the time of applying for and receiving the original GMRS license in 2000 there seemed to be no way to differentiate because the FCC bundled the frequencies under GMRS. I am actually glad to have moved forward with updating as the problem is settled now. The old Kenwood radios are going to be decommissioned and the recycled. Thanks again for the comments and help.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

The GMRS license was provided on June 24, 2000. We ran with it for ten years and failed to renew...

Then you had a business license, not a GMRS license. The license period for GMRS from 1989 until 2017 was 5 years, not 10.

 

[ecps92]

Lucky for me I had the foresight to buy new GMRS radios and those are under the current license. At the time of applying for and receiving the original GMRS license in 2000 there seemed to be no way to differentiate because the FCC bundled the frequencies under GMRS. I am actually glad to have moved forward with updating as the problem is settled now. The old Kenwood radios are going to be decommissioned and the recycled. Thanks again for the comments and help.

What is/was the Call Sign and/or FRN ?