old information

WRQI583

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Nov 27, 2022
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56
Location
Maine
I was just curious as to why old information is left up on this site? I have submitted info in the past and have noticed others who have and the new information will be added but the old info is also left there.
An example could be a set of frequencies for a trunked system where a frequency might get deleted and another added. Instead of removing the old frequencies not in use, they leave them there so that all of the frequencies old and new are listed. Another case is where a trunked system is put in place, all agencies go on that system and 100% abandoned their old analog frequencies. The old analog system will be still listed as well as the new stuff.
I didnt know if it was maybe just to leave it up to remember what frequencies they used to use or is it just because the person who put it up didnt bother removing the old stuff?
 

RaleighGuy

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Raleigh, NC
I was just curious as to why old information is left up on this site? I have submitted info in the past and have noticed others who have and the new information will be added but the old info is also left there.

I'm guessing when you say "this site" you are really talking about the database, and not the forums which is what this thread is about? Or are you talking about old forums posts?

An example could be a set of frequencies for a trunked system where a frequency might get deleted and another added. Instead of removing the old frequencies not in use, they leave them there so that all of the frequencies old and new are listed. Another case is where a trunked system is put in place, all agencies go on that system and 100% abandoned their old analog frequencies. The old analog system will be still listed as well as the new stuff.
I didnt know if it was maybe just to leave it up to remember what frequencies they used to use or is it just because the person who put it up didnt bother removing the old stuff?

Guessing you are talking about the database, please remember it is built upon verified information submitted by users. So, if a system or frequencies change and the new information is submitted without verification that the old ones are no longer in use, typically the database admins will not remove the old ones. Also, probably because public safety is exempt from fees, many times a local government/department will hang on to old licenses just in case, and will show an active license despite the frequencies not being used. In the later case, unless an insider says they aren't ever using them again there is no verification they aren't in use, lack of traffic doesn't always mean they aren't in use any longer as they may be kept as backups.
 

WRQI583

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Joined
Nov 27, 2022
Messages
56
Location
Maine
I'm guessing when you say "this site" you are really talking about the database, and not the forums which is what this thread is about? Or are you talking about old forums posts?



Guessing you are talking about the database, please remember it is built upon verified information submitted by users. So, if a system or frequencies change and the new information is submitted without verification that the old ones are no longer in use, typically the database admins will not remove the old ones. Also, probably because public safety is exempt from fees, many times a local government/department will hang on to old licenses just in case, and will show an active license despite the frequencies not being used. In the later case, unless an insider says they aren't ever using them again there is no verification they aren't in use, lack of traffic doesn't always mean they aren't in use any longer as they may be kept as backups.
Ok, that makes sense. I wasn't sure. And yes it was in reference to the database.
 

nd5y

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Dec 19, 2002
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Wichita Falls, TX
There aren't people in every single county or city who are capable of finding and submitting new things or changes.
Maybe the original submission was from a tourist in a low population area.
Locals won't know that something changed if it's something they don't regularly listen to, don't care about, is rarely used, or if they don't regularly check for new/modified FCC licenses in their area.
 

ecps92

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Jul 8, 2002
Messages
15,050
Location
Taxachusetts
I was just curious as to why old information is left up on this site? I have submitted info in the past and have noticed others who have and the new information will be added but the old info is also left there.
An example could be a set of frequencies for a trunked system where a frequency might get deleted and another added. Instead of removing the old frequencies not in use, they leave them there so that all of the frequencies old and new are listed. Another case is where a trunked system is put in place, all agencies go on that system and 100% abandoned their old analog frequencies. The old analog system will be still listed as well as the new stuff.
I didnt know if it was maybe just to leave it up to remember what frequencies they used to use or is it just because the person who put it up didnt bother removing the old stuff?
an example ?

Also Hobbyists, may or may not even know a change occured and even with Conventional systems, just because you/me or someone else has not heard it recently, doesn't make it fact that it is no longer used. It could still be in the Codeplug of the Dept and is a little used Channel - Freq/Talkgroup etc
 

WRQI583

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Joined
Nov 27, 2022
Messages
56
Location
Maine
an example ?
One is when a frequency on a trunked system changes and the correct stuff is submitted but what happens is that the new stuff is just added and the old stuff stays.
Another example is a town who goes fully on a trunked system, it is confirmed that they are on there but both the old analog system and the digital is left up.

I just didn't know why that is but it was explained on here.
 

ecps92

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Jul 8, 2002
Messages
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Taxachusetts
One is when a frequency on a trunked system changes and the correct stuff is submitted but what happens is that the new stuff is just added and the old stuff stays.
Another example is a town who goes fully on a trunked system, it is confirmed that they are on there but both the old analog system and the digital is left up.

I just didn't know why that is but it was explained on here.
Was looking for a full example...
Provide the Link to the Bad Data from the RRDB and then explain why/what you think is wrong with it.
Without seeing the REAL data issue, we all end up going down many a rabbit hole of possibilities

As to Agencies moving to Digital, many (not all, but there is a good percentage) have gone Mixed Mode, meaning they can/do use both P25 and Analog. Unless the data being submitted is from an official source, then as a hobbyist it is impossible to make that determination.

And in todays day of unlimited (almost) memory vs only 400 channels or having to buy crystals, what harm is there to keep both in the scanner.??
 

ecps92

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Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
15,050
Location
Taxachusetts
Was looking for a full example...
Provide the Link to the Bad Data from the RRDB and then explain why/what you think is wrong with it.
Without seeing the REAL data issue, we all end up going down many a rabbit hole of possibilities

As to Agencies moving to Digital, many (not all, but there is a good percentage) have gone Mixed Mode, meaning they can/do use both P25 and Analog. Unless the data being submitted is from an official source, then as a hobbyist it is impossible to make that determination.

And in todays day of unlimited (almost) memory vs only 400 channels or having to buy crystals, what harm is there to keep both in the scanner.??
ie: Proving the link to the RR DB and describing the error
 

rf_patriot200

Active Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2024
Messages
941
Location
Freeport, Illinois
Several "Deprecated " Frequencies in the db in my area are Still on the air, even though a check of the ULS shows their license is indeed expired. I'm sure it's like this elsewhere too.
 

rf_patriot200

Active Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2024
Messages
941
Location
Freeport, Illinois
I'm surprised people will look at database information, know it is not correct, and not notify the Database Administrator for that area to make amends. Do you not want correct listings?
I have the Correct listings, but when Expired license transmissions occur, it's nice to keep track of those. Besides, I'm sure the db Admin's know what they're doing. ;)
 

LAflyer

Global DB Admin
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SoCal
A few points from a Db. Admin.

1) If the information is not submitted, we have no way of knowing what is "old" and can be appropriately depreciated.

2) There have been a ton of instances when an agency might migrate to a new trunked system and the assumption was erroneously made that the legacy frequencies were no longer used and removed, to only discover that they remained available for use such as for mutual aid, reassigned to another department, or simply held in reserve as backup.

3) Just because a license is expired, does not mean the frequency is no longer used. Agencies and businesses do forget to renew their licences and the applicable frequencies could well still be good.

Ultimately the RR Database is member driven. The more current and accurate information that is submitted, the more current and accurate the Db will be.

Thank you to everyone that contributes to RR.
 
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