BCD325P2/BCD996P2: Old problem still haunting the BCD996P2 with audio

Air_Force_Vet

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Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Messages
15
Location
Yukon
I think I have found the problem. After getting the data from RR, I have left out one of the MOST IMPORTANT steps of programming a P2. The QUICK KEYS. After the trial and errors I went through, It dawned on me, the only systems, sites and groups that broke the squelch were the ones I manually input, by following the rules.

It is obvious I am a full fledged member of the man club because I did not read the proscan manual thoroughly. But THAT is the problem. Now, I need just go enter the quick key combinations I want and I should be scanning. I will come back with an update.

Due to my frustration, I went and bought a BCD536HP Lets see how that turns out. I will now remember the QUICK KEYS!!! lol
 

wtp

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Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,007
Location
Port Charlotte FL
i am a dinosaur and think the way of crystals and direct entry, i do not use any quick keys.
i just lock and unlock the system/s i want to listen to.
 

hiegtx

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May 8, 2004
Messages
11,190
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Dallas, TX
I think I have found the problem. After getting the data from RR, I have left out one of the MOST IMPORTANT steps of programming a P2. The QUICK KEYS. After the trial and errors I went through, It dawned on me, the only systems, sites and groups that broke the squelch were the ones I manually input, by following the rules.

It is obvious I am a full fledged member of the man club because I did not read the proscan manual thoroughly. But THAT is the problem. Now, I need just go enter the quick key combinations I want and I should be scanning. I will come back with an update.

Due to my frustration, I went and bought a BCD536HP Lets see how that turns out. I will now remember the QUICK KEYS!!! lol
Using ProScan, you can simply import your 996P2 file if you so desire. That can give you a jump start rather than starting all over.
OK, I have been experimenting. The I am now getting major multiple hits, 5 bars, 4 bars, several agencies coming up on the display. but they all have one thing in common. No audio. I can pick up conventional audio like weather and radio tv stations. I had entered in system 1 manually with quick key, sites, groups, ID Hex's, Id Names. I was getting chatter and I was showing on the display S0:1 GRP 2. Then I imported from RR other sites and cleaned up what I did not want and uploaded as add only. I made sure attenuator was off, The P25 threshhold is at auto. I am hitting strong Simulcast hits with TGID's full bars, even showing SID number. No audio. Could it be something to do with the squelch not opening up? The squelch is all the way left. On conventional (nom P25) I can control the squelch just fine. I have duplicate groups in there so I can catch transmissions more often. I did notice last night I went mobile and the when I was 3 miles SW of downtown OKC, I was getting all kinds of hits from everywhere.

I brought the scanner inside this morning and hooked it up to a mobile dipole that is outside the 3rd floor apt. It has picked up signals from units 25 miles away just fine on the P25. Anyhow. I just got a hit from the Yukon PD clear as a bell and there was only 2 bars. I thought, the more bars, the stronger the signal. Here is the most recent upload/download from scanner
Your comments that you were not receiving much of anything in your vehicle (on the trunked system), but did after you brought inside might be a sign of a simulcast problem. The very strong signal is another hint.

What might be happening is this: As already discussed, the OKC site is simulcast. Out in your vehicle, you're getting hammered from different directions, and that can overload the scanner to the point you hear nothing (on the OKC trunked system). Simulcast is generally not an issue on conventional channels, so you are hearing those in your vehicle.

But then you brought it inside, and connected it to a dipole just out your 3rd story window, and voila, trunked system reception. As I noted earlier, and has been documented & discussed ad infinitum here in the forums, simulcast is extremely location dependent. Bringing it inside, then connected to a dipole just out your window, the stricture of your apartment building may be blocking, or at least attenuating, signals from other directions so that the scanner can work. Foil backed insulation in the walls (in a residential house), or aluminum siding on the outside walls, can have that same effect. In exchanging messages with someone in my area (DFW), the member I was talking to found that moving his 436HP a whopping six inches made the difference between working, and not receiving.

When you were "3 miles SW of downtown OKC", you may well have been close enough to one of the individual subsites (the transmit towers in a simulcast site) that it's strong signal was enough to drown out the out of sync signals from other locations. Here's the site map for the OKC Simulcast (from the database):
1685742699022.png
At home in Yukon, outside in your vehicle, you can see a number of sites scattered around in different directions & distances from your location. The dipole outside outside your apartment window, especially if that was in a northwest or southwest direction, may have resulting in blocking enough other sites to only get a good signal from one location. You can see that there are a number of subsites scattered to your east, at slightly different distances & directions.

I don't have the 996P2, but do have it's handheld sibling. It struggles with simulcast. The 436HP & 5336HP are a bit better dealing with simulcast, but the only scanners that can consistently handle it are the SDS series scanners.
 

Air_Force_Vet

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Messages
15
Location
Yukon
I think I have found the problem. After getting the data from RR, I have left out one of the MOST IMPORTANT steps of programming a P2. The QUICK KEYS. After the trial and errors I went through, It dawned on me, the only systems, sites and groups that broke the squelch were the ones I manually input, by following the rules.

It is obvious I am a full fledged member of the man club because I did not read the proscan manual thoroughly. But THAT is the problem. Now, I need just go enter the quick key combinations I want and I should be scanning. I will come back with an update.

Due to my frustration, I went and bought a BCD536HP Lets see how that turns out. I will now remember the QUICK KEYS!!! lol

Using ProScan, you can simply import your 996P2 file if you so desire. That can give you a jump start rather than starting all over.

Your comments that you were not receiving much of anything in your vehicle (on the trunked system), but did after you brought inside might be a sign of a simulcast problem. The very strong signal is another hint.

What might be happening is this: As already discussed, the OKC site is simulcast. Out in your vehicle, you're getting hammered from different directions, and that can overload the scanner to the point you hear nothing (on the OKC trunked system). Simulcast is generally not an issue on conventional channels, so you are hearing those in your vehicle.

But then you brought it inside, and connected it to a dipole just out your 3rd story window, and voila, trunked system reception. As I noted earlier, and has been documented & discussed ad infinitum here in the forums, simulcast is extremely location dependent. Bringing it inside, then connected to a dipole just out your window, the stricture of your apartment building may be blocking, or at least attenuating, signals from other directions so that the scanner can work. Foil backed insulation in the walls (in a residential house), or aluminum siding on the outside walls, can have that same effect. In exchanging messages with someone in my area (DFW), the member I was talking to found that moving his 436HP a whopping six inches made the difference between working, and not receiving.

When you were "3 miles SW of downtown OKC", you may well have been close enough to one of the individual subsites (the transmit towers in a simulcast site) that it's strong signal was enough to drown out the out of sync signals from other locations. Here's the site map for the OKC Simulcast (from the database):
View attachment 142949
At home in Yukon, outside in your vehicle, you can see a number of sites scattered around in different directions & distances from your location. The dipole outside outside your apartment window, especially if that was in a northwest or southwest direction, may have resulting in blocking enough other sites to only get a good signal from one location. You can see that there are a number of subsites scattered to your east, at slightly different distances & directions.

I don't have the 996P2, but do have it's handheld sibling. It struggles with simulcast. The 436HP & 5336HP are a bit better dealing with simulcast, but the only scanners that can consistently handle it are the SDS series scanners.
OK, it must be occasional picking up the NW tower. Is the circle the broadcast zone? I am at where highway 4 crosses 270 (aka I-40). The SW tower seems to be behind me. I think I got it now.. We will see if my 536HP does any better. I get it tomorrow. Back to the RR data not assigning quick keys to sites and groups.
 

Air_Force_Vet

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Messages
15
Location
Yukon
I just ordered a 30" Discone Antenna. It is supposed to work good for Apartment balconies. At least that is what the reviews are saying. I am going to try just about anything I can up to moving into OKC metro. I do not like big cities. I am done for a few days. thanks for all the help. I am starting good and upgrading to better equipment. learning on the way.
 

hiegtx

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Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
11,190
Location
Dallas, TX
OK, it must be occasional picking up the NW tower. Is the circle the broadcast zone? I am at where highway 4 crosses 270 (aka I-40). The SW tower seems to be behind me. I think I got it now.. We will see if my 536HP does any better. I get it tomorrow. Back to the RR data not assigning quick keys to sites and groups.
The circle you see is the estimated range used in the database. Generally, the database administrators set the "range" to cover the jurisdictional boundaries of the city or county that uses that site. Depending on where you are, and what might be between you & the closest transmit point, the actual distance of the range could be more, or less, than what you see.

I just ordered a 30" Discone Antenna. It is supposed to work good for Apartment balconies. At least that is what the reviews are saying. I am going to try just about anything I can up to moving into OKC metro. I do not like big cities. I am done for a few days. thanks for all the help. I am starting good and upgrading to better equipment. learning on the way.
Remember that, when dealing with simulcast, "more antenna" (one with more gain or mounted at a higher level) is not always advisable. While that's not an issue with the SDS series scanners, it can be for most every other scanner model. If you put up a 'better' antenna, then feed your 996P2, or 536HP, there is a possibility that you'd hear less than you do now with your 'old' antenna. In a few cases, users have used a paper clip antenna, to limit the strength of the received signal to one that their (non-SDS series) scanner can handle.
Paperclip antenna
 

Air_Force_Vet

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Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Messages
15
Location
Yukon
The circle you see is the estimated range used in the database. Generally, the database administrators set the "range" to cover the jurisdictional boundaries of the city or county that uses that site. Depending on where you are, and what might be between you & the closest transmit point, the actual distance of the range could be more, or less, than what you see.


Remember that, when dealing with simulcast, "more antenna" (one with more gain or mounted at a higher level) is not always advisable. While that's not an issue with the SDS series scanners, it can be for most every other scanner model. If you put up a 'better' antenna, then feed your 996P2, or 536HP, there is a possibility that you'd hear less than you do now with your 'old' antenna. In a few cases, users have used a paper clip antenna, to limit the strength of the received signal to one that their (non-SDS series) scanner can handle.
Paperclip antenna
I will try the stock telescoping antenna outside... and I might even go for that paper clip... Thanks. If anything, This conversation may help others and up to date.
 

hiegtx

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Messages
11,190
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Dallas, TX
I will try the stock telescoping antenna outside... and I might even go for that paper clip... Thanks. If anything, This conversation may help others and up to date.
Yep, give it a shot. Who cares if it "looks pretty", as long as it works.
 

Ubbe

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
9,038
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
If using paperclip you will get problems receiving other systems. Always first try the attenuator for that particular simulcast system, as that equals a paperclip antennas attenuation but you can still receive other systems that have not been programmed with the attenuator setting.

/Ubbe
 

Air_Force_Vet

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Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Messages
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Location
Yukon
Guys and maybe Gals... I FIGURED IT OUT. It was just ONE option to click that we were over looking. When using Proscan, after you select what you want to import, go to the RR webpage, under the TALK GROUPS section, I changed the default setting from GROUPED to ALL TALK GROUPS. Now this darn scanner will not shut up. I did analyze the P25 threshold by pressing the FUNC + VOL knobs together and watching the bottom row of numbers. I had some that were off the charts. I moved my antenna around inch by inch until I narrowed it down to a manageable number and adjusted the threshold a few times. Other than that, I did not touch anything from the import data. I am now back to the stock telescoping antenna, grounded to the balcony railing by sitting under a metal planter, sticking out at a 90 degree angle from the rail and approximately 12 inches from a brick wall, held in place by electrical tape. Oh yea, I have a 32 ft RG58 low loss 50 OHM BNC to BNC coax. ....and no, I did not get to the paper clip test Ubbe. LOL

You guys rock. Now I have this thing working and I also have a 536HP arriving tomorrow. Not to happy about that purchase. I paid $80 for next day delivery Friday morning and it got scheduled for Monday before 10 pm. Will have to bad mouth them later.
 

ProScan

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Ontario, Calif.
When using Proscan, after you select what you want to import, go to the RR webpage, under the TALK GROUPS section, I changed the default setting from GROUPED to ALL TALK GROUPS
I'm not sure what you mean. In the RR Import window, all groups and talk groups will import unless the check boxes are manually unchecked. Doing anything on the RR webpage will not have any effect on determining what to import.
 
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