On now, another wrong way

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jjbond

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On 202 near Sky Harbor..... being worked on DPS Metro Central with a Phx PD air unit enroute....
 

KB7MIB

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Did they ever find the wrong way?

If you listen to DPS regularly, you'll hear that reports of wrong way drivers are fairly common. Many of them appear to self correct, and are never actually encountered by DPS.

John
Peoria
 

jjbond

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Good to know... this time living here and when I lived here in the 2006 time period it always blew me away how many of those we have... crazy. There was heated traffic and an air unit then the radio went quiet, i was messing around on another system so didn't hear.
 

DJ11DLN

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Did they ever find the wrong way?

If you listen to DPS regularly, you'll hear that reports of wrong way drivers are fairly common. Many of them appear to self correct, and are never actually encountered by DPS.

John
Peoria
I hear much the same around here. Most commonly they never find the vehicle, more rarely they find it and it has already turned around. Only occasionally do they actually come into contact with the wrong-way driver...but that can end in a number of ways, few of them good, depending on why the driver was in the wrong direction of travel.
 

KB7MIB

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A lot of them here are typically under the influence, usually alcohol, sometimes a combination of drugs and alcohol.

Other wrong ways are confused elderly drivers, who maybe shouldn't have a drivers license any longer.

Our simple diamond interchanges make it too easy for drivers to get on the freeways the wrong way. Cloverleaf interchanges are more difficult to accidentally get on the wrong way, but take up a lot more real estate around the interchanges.

ADOT is installing at least one diverging diamond interchange along the Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway segment in Ahwatukee (Phoenix). I believe it's been claimed that it could reduce the chances of a wrong way driver, without taking up any more real estate than a simple diamond interchange. However, reading about it (link below), it may not actually do so, according to the 4th paragraph.

Diverging diamond interchange - Wikipedia

Every time the issue of a wrong way driver comes up, there are several calls for wrong way spikes to be installed on the off ramps. However, engineers from several state DOT's across the country have studied that idea, and have come to the conclusion that they would not work, for several reasons. They are not designed for right way traffic travelling over 5mph, there would need to be a series of speed bumps down the exit ramps to slow exiting traffic down to 5mph, which can lead to long backups onto the freeway mainline, and increase the possibility of rear end crashes. They clog up too easily, and are high maintenance because of that. High speeds and clogging increase the chance of breakage, which can then damage tires of right way traffic. They are also not motorcycle friendly. And sometimes, first responders have to travel the wrong way on an exit ramp in order to get to an incident scene. So, wrong way spikes are not an effective solution to wrong way drivers on the freeways.

John
Peoria
 

jjbond

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Thanks for all the info John..... I recall a long time ago, when I lived here last time, they were talking about installing FLIR like cameras above the end of each off ramp pointed down and if they detected a car entering it and going up the off ramp in the wrong direction, would notify DPS. I guess that was determined to be non cost effective.

Jen

Oh.. disregard, it looks like it did get put into use..

I-17 thermal-camera system alerts ADOT, DPS to wrong-way truck

I-17 warning system detects first wrong-way driver on travel lanes
 

kruser

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I recall a proposal to install wrong way detection devices at off ramps that could also disable a wrong way vehicle. I don't remember who proposed this and if it was a nationwide thing or just someone in Missouri but it obviously never became a reality.
I'd guess this was at least 10 or more years ago when I read about this. I'd bet auto manufactures had something to say about getting it squelched.
 

DJ11DLN

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A lot of them here are typically under the influence, usually alcohol, sometimes a combination of drugs and alcohol.

Other wrong ways are confused elderly drivers, who maybe shouldn't have a drivers license any longer.

Our simple diamond interchanges make it too easy for drivers to get on the freeways the wrong way. Cloverleaf interchanges are more difficult to accidentally get on the wrong way, but take up a lot more real estate around the interchanges.

ADOT is installing at least one diverging diamond interchange along the Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway segment in Ahwatukee (Phoenix). I believe it's been claimed that it could reduce the chances of a wrong way driver, without taking up any more real estate than a simple diamond interchange. However, reading about it (link below), it may not actually do so, according to the 4th paragraph.

Diverging diamond interchange - Wikipedia

Every time the issue of a wrong way driver comes up, there are several calls for wrong way spikes to be installed on the off ramps. However, engineers from several state DOT's across the country have studied that idea, and have come to the conclusion that they would not work, for several reasons. They are not designed for right way traffic travelling over 5mph, there would need to be a series of speed bumps down the exit ramps to slow exiting traffic down to 5mph, which can lead to long backups onto the freeway mainline, and increase the possibility of rear end crashes. They clog up too easily, and are high maintenance because of that. High speeds and clogging increase the chance of breakage, which can then damage tires of right way traffic. They are also not motorcycle friendly. And sometimes, first responders have to travel the wrong way on an exit ramp in order to get to an incident scene. So, wrong way spikes are not an effective solution to wrong way drivers on the freeways.

John
Peoria
Agree very much that interchanges are pretty confusing anymore. And IN is also planning several diverging diamonds...I had thus already seen that Wiki article. It gave me a headache. Possibly I will be in that category of "no longer should have a license" by the time any of them get built...I can let some Uber jockey deal with negotiating such things.:ROFLMAO:

As far as the wrong-way barriers, I don't think they'd be a good idea even if they did work for right-way traffic at speed. Many, many times when there's an incident on one of the interstates and traffic backup precludes approaching from the right direction, the responding units end up using the off ramps and proceeding back to the pile-up from ahead of it. Barriers would really play hob with that little bit if exigent procedure.
 

jjbond

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Can I please thank you all for re-instilling my faith that people here CAN actually have an exchange of coms wihout it turning into a feces show. My litle post that I knew would be of no value by the time most read it (event would be over) has turned into an EXCELLENT litle discusson on this topic which from what I've seen in the several place I've lived, is more common here. I've never seen so many news reports on wrong way drivers than I have when I've lived in AZ.

But I digress.... I've always wondered, "how do you accidently go down the wrong way of an off ramp" I mean I lived Australia a number of years and I'll admit, when I returned to America/Canada, there were a couple of times where when returning to my car, I unlocked and got into the passenger seat and then promptly exited and walked around to the drivers door but to go down an off ramp.... I realize most have been drunk and I wish they'd stop blaming it on age etc (as I rapidly approach the period in my life where I get to experience this e-ticket ride for myself) :)

My point is in this short note, I have to run out now but that Wiki article looks aweome, thank you for sharing, I will read it when I reture cus this topic, strange as it is has always interested me.... and thank you again, I made a post last night in another area about some conversations not feeling like a community, and my AZ brothers (and Sister if there are any) proved to me, that at least here in AZ, we can be cordial and have a convo without tossing :poop: :poop: :poop: balls at each other :ROFLMAO:

The post I meantion (don't bother reading it, none of it applies to you all) (y)
https://forums.radioreference.com/t...r-response-take-a-moment.390749/#post-3150638

Cheers guys....
Jen
 

DJ11DLN

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Sometimes people just get set off about something. Don't ever let it get you down...it's an internet forum, for pity's sake, not real life. Yes, there's a lot of good info here and a lot of valuable back-and-forth exchange...and a lot of really great folks. But at the end of the day it's nothing to ever get the tiniest bit upset about when somebody shoots a deprecating or even insulting reply to something you posted.

To keep on topic, I will say that I myself find the signage used now to be less clear than it once was. I think this is because so much of it is the "universal" kind where someone not fluent in English should be able to navigate, and what I grew up on was predicated on everyone traveling the roads here being English speakers. That's just a theory of mine and while I've never actually mistaken an off ramp for an on ramp, I am really grateful for GPS when traveling. Oh, I still know how to use a map and lay out a route...but the interchanges can be tricky without that little voice telling me what lane to get in and where to turn in which direction.
 

jjbond

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I will say that I myself find the signage used now to be less clear than it once was. I think this is because so much of it is the "universal" kind where someone not fluent in English should be able to navigate, and what I grew up on was predicated on everyone traveling the roads here being English speakers.

BINGO!!!!! Some of us think it, and some of us are brave enough to say it... you're spot on!!!!!! Dumbed down to the lowest common denominator, like everything else these days... (and I'm not saying non English speakers are dumb).
 

MUTNAV

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Yup... I don't know if dumbed down is the right set of words though, maybe excessive symbolism. I started to think of this in Germany in 2003 Brian's Guide to Getting Around Germany - German Traffic Signs & Signals (Page 2 of 2) is a good example of some of the street signs you had to memorize in order to get a license. It might have been easier to learn German.
In Texas in 2005 though I noticed that for some reason some people kept on driving extra slow. I finally figured out that they would drive the speed limit of, lets say 35, but 35 KPH rather than MPH. I wonder if Az. has the same thing happening.
 

jjbond

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And then you have to wonder, if you're heading north and you see two headlights approaching you, as in this case.... why wouldn't you swerve, put on the brakes, or anything.. was the innocent distracted by a cell phone but this is crazy that they'd just keep dead on towards each other. Happened in North Texas.


The North Texas Tollway Authority released traffic cam video that shows the deadly wrong-way crash around 2:30 a.m. Thursday on the President George Bush Turnpike near Shiloh Road.

In this short clip, shes' driving along and then out of the blue, does a U turn and head back in the wrong direction, this has to be a suicide.. crazy..

NTTA Releases Footage of Wrong Way Deadly Crash on PGBT
 
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