Oneida County VHF P25 Trunking?

studgeman

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Without commenting on the merits of the design or theory....

Oneida County's project is to replace the radio systems in Rome and Utica and New Hartford with a VHF P25 Phase 2 simulcast system consisting of 5 towers covering all 3 communities. Additionally, the microwave connecting the current county towers will be upgraded and the current voted analog systems supporting the remainder of the county will be converted to simulcast. The P25 system will be connected to the Onondaga Master site.

The reason for the VHF trunking is to keep subscriber costs down and allow single band compatibility between users.

There are plenty of UHF frequencies available if you know how to do it, frequency availability was not a consideration in the design.
 

gutter89

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Seems kinda of confusing why not just go uhf for the hole county and what about interoperability with the uhf of oswego Madison and Onondaga
 
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DaveNF2G

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The potential flaw in back-end interoperability as opposed to in-band is what can happen during an actual mutual aid scenario.

A unit from System A responds to an incident within the coverage of System B. The systems are linked, but in different bands. Because they are supposed to be interoperable, the unit only has one radio.

The scene is not within the coverage of System A due to distance or terrain. The unit cannot communicate with anyone else on the scene via either system.
 

jeepsandradios

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Dave while you are correct in the statement on coverage, I highly doubt they would get anyplace they couldn't talk in the Madison/Oswego side of the area. Additionally Oswego and Madison cover well into Oneida County so those on UHF should have no issues. I am still in the system past Utica on the Thruway every week on my trip to Albany. Being they are still a neighbor of a VHF county (Herkimer) I think no matter which band they went there would be some interoperability issues. Besides Im sure departments tat work the boarder could get dual band radios if they chose
 

R0am3r

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Jeff - I wonder if you could get decent coverage from the Boonville and Forestport areas into Oswego or Madison counties. This seems like a stretch on UHF. Oneida County has some diverse terrain and is certainly a challenge for radio communications.
 

gutter89

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Dave while you are correct in the statement on coverage, I highly doubt they would get anyplace they couldn't talk in the Madison/Oswego side of the area. Additionally Oswego and Madison cover well into Oneida County so those on UHF should have no issues. I am still in the system past Utica on the Thruway every week on my trip to Albany. Being they are still a neighbor of a VHF county (Herkimer) I think no matter which band they went there would be some interoperability issues. Besides Im sure departments tat work the boarder could get dual band radios if they chose
I almost think it would be cheaper do just pay for the border of Herkimer departments for the dual band would be less money where Lewis (in development) Madison Oswego and Onondaga are UHF

But on the flip side Oswego Onondaga and Madison are uhf phase 1 trunking using xtl/xts 1500 and 2500 (fire subscribers) if i remember correct they can not handle the phase 2 trunking(that Oneida plans on using) the users would have to upgrade to apx radios that can handle phase 1 and 2 and if that is the case just upgrade the neighbors in the UHF cnyric to the apx7000 dual band solve all problems.
 

KA2FWN

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i would put my money on a vhf trunked system for rome and one for utica , and county vhf simulcast.
but then again who knows?, freqs submitted to the fcc - rejected
 

studgeman

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It is supposed to be a single VHF simulcast cell. Tower locations are essentially set. Higby Rd., 911 Center, Erie Blvd at S. Charles St. Rome, One more around St. Lukes. and a receiver on the County Office Building. They were trying to place it at the DOT residence on Lomond Place but the county was getting the run around from Crown Castle. Not sure how that worked out. There is simply not enough clear VHF to support two simulcast cells. Now in UHF this could be done easily.

You are correct about the simulcast upgrade for the rest of the county, they have to replace the microwave to do that.
 

R0am3r

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Killing Rome NXDN?

It is supposed to be a single VHF simulcast cell. Tower locations are essentially set. Higby Rd., 911 Center, Erie Blvd at S. Charles St. Rome, One more around St. Lukes. and a receiver on the County Office Building. They were trying to place it at the DOT residence on Lomond Place but the county was getting the run around from Crown Castle. Not sure how that worked out. There is simply not enough clear VHF to support two simulcast cells. Now in UHF this could be done easily.

You are correct about the simulcast upgrade for the rest of the county, they have to replace the microwave to do that.
What will the individual cities and villages do for their mobile radio fleet? For instance, will Rome replace all of their NXDN radios for P25 compatible radios? Or is this new county-wide system simply a bridge between the disparate technologies used throughout Oneida County?
 

jeepsandradios

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You are correct about the simulcast upgrade for the rest of the county, they have to replace the microwave to do that.
Not sure what the difference in UHF would be. Our SAR team spent over 3 years working with APCO to get a UHF frequency in Onondaga County. We still have a request for 3 others. There are NO UHF public safety channels in CNY available.
 

studgeman

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The idea is to get everyone on to the same frequency band and rid the county of proprietary trunking technologies.

There is PLENTY of UHF available in central new york, most people just don't know what they are looking for. Got 8 pair countywide for Jefferson Co. earlier this year. Had no shortage of potential to chose from. Feel free to PM.
 
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DaveNF2G

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The Rome Sentinel wrote an article about an emergency radio tower. At 120 feet, this should provide great coverage for a large part of the county.
Did you read the article?

After meeting Tuesday with engineers, “we have officially eliminated any potential for the Turin Street site,” Picente said today.
 

R0am3r

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Did you read the article?

After meeting Tuesday with engineers, “we have officially eliminated any potential for the Turin Street site,” Picente said today.
Yes Dave - I READ THE ARTICLE. Maybe you should read the ENTIRE article. The article clearly states: "Instead, a tower “most likely” would be located off Erie Boulevard, said Picente, on a city-owned site near the Lowe’s store but on the opposite/south side of the boulevard." The article doesn't say if the tower will be the same size. That was my assumption since it is further away from the second potential tower at Griffiss and the terrain/elevation are about the same.
 
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DaveNF2G

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That's why I questioned the basis for your statement. The article does not mention any other 120-foot tower, and contradicts any idea of one being built as originally proposed. Jumping to conclusions is not the same as making predictions based on evidence.
 
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