Orange County Polling Question

[radioman2001]

It's nice to hear that there is still some one who cares, especially about the low band. Dutchess County "thought " they could abandon the LB channel for paging, but it seems the UHF still doesn't have good enough coverage, plus a lot of siren activators are still low band. Our discussion maybe a little off topic but in reality it comes down to the same topic. Whether you are on LB, VHF,UHF,UHF-T,700,or 800, will an agency be able to call for help, or co-ordinate in the event of a real disaster.

 

[62Truck]

It's nice to hear that there is still some one who cares, especially about the low band. Dutchess County "thought " they could abandon the LB channel for paging, but it seems the UHF still doesn't have good enough coverage, plus a lot of siren activators are still low band. Our discussion maybe a little off topic but in reality it comes down to the same topic. Whether you are on LB, VHF,UHF,UHF-T,700,or 800, will an agency be able to call for help, or co-ordinate in the event of a real disaster.

They only issue with Dutchess that I know of and from listening. Is the multipathing, you get into a area where you can receive 3 different towers it sounds pretty rough (on dispatch then transmit on all sites at the same time). The LB channel is on Clove Mt.

 

[oc911emsandfire]

I'm kind of reigniting a somewhat old thread but there is one thing I don't understand why they don't do.

If the OC 800 PD system automatically selects the tower, can't they set it so that if say a poll comes in for T/Newburgh, that it is repeated onto the Beacon priority channel?

In case I'm not being clear, the computers know that T/Newburgh transmitting to Orange 911 are using the 800 Beacon site. So, can't the computer, knowing that the 800 activity is coming in on Beacon, put it back out on the Beacon VHF priority channel? So that say NYSP on VHF can still hear what T/Newburgh is saying. Then, couldn't 911 talk to the units the way they do now?

Essentially the 800 incoming traffic would be repeated but the way the outgoing traffic (ie 911 to units) would stay the same.

Or is that not possible or too complicated?

 

[GTR8000]

I'm kind of reigniting a somewhat old thread but there is one thing I don't understand why they don't do.

If the OC 800 PD system automatically selects the tower, can't they set it so that if say a poll comes in for T/Newburgh, that it is repeated onto the Beacon priority channel?

In case I'm not being clear, the computers know that T/Newburgh transmitting to Orange 911 are using the 800 Beacon site. So, can't the computer, knowing that the 800 activity is coming in on Beacon, put it back out on the Beacon VHF priority channel? So that say NYSP on VHF can still hear what T/Newburgh is saying. Then, couldn't 911 talk to the units the way they do now?

Essentially the 800 incoming traffic would be repeated but the way the outgoing traffic (ie 911 to units) would stay the same.

Or is that not possible or too complicated?

The NYCOMCO 800 system is separate from the VHF system. OC911 is transmitting on both frequencies simultaneously when they poll for certain calls. Remember, the 800 system is simulcast across multiple (or all) 800 towers for certain talkgroups like Polling.

If you tied the systems together so that Polling on 800 and VHF was automatically simulcast/multicast, you're going to run into issues. Specifically the fact that there are multiple VHF towers that are not simulcast, so what happens when a Deerpark unit is talking to OC911 on Graham VHF, and the system tries to broadcast activity from 800 over VHF at the same time? A real mess is what will happen.

 

[oc911emsandfire]

A real mess is what will happen.

Wouldn't that be the same mess that happens if say an EMS unit tried to transmit on Beacon while another tried to transmit on Arden at the same time?

I'm not saying it would be repeated/simulcast/multicast over all towers (VHF), just a predetermined tower on VHF. So if a poll goes out off of Beacon 800 and a unit responds using Beacon 800 it is broadcast over the VHF polling Beacon tower only. Almost the same effect as the way the VHF input PLs work. If Deerpark has another call going on on VHF polling on Grahm its broadcast over the Grahm 800 polling only (or all of them if they felt like it, but for my purpose...just Grahm)

Why wouldn't that work? Think of it as the way the repeaters are set up for EMS but instead of using the same band the 800 incoming traffic is broadcast over VHF only on one specific tower. (The other way the tower doesn't matter...I don't think)

Maybe you already explained that and I didn't understand??

 

[GTR8000]

OC's radio system is a mess, so it's not cut and dry.

If you link 800 to VHF, you have to do the reverse and link VHF to 800, otherwise it's pointless because cars with VHF won't be able to communicate with the 800 users. Given the fact that Polling is simulcast on all 800 towers regardless of where the job is, how exactly are you going to determine which VHF tower to broadcast 800 Polling over? It would require the systems be setup so that the 800 system tells the VHF system which site is receiving the input signal, and for that VHF repeater to key up (i.e. 800 system tells the VHF system "This Deerpark unit is keying up on the Graham site, so please repeat over Graham Polling VHF"). Even if that were done, it's still imperfect, because if a car is out of range of that VHF tower and keys up, you're back to there being the same mess.

Yes, if units try to key up on two different towers on VHF, they can interfere with each other. However it wouldn't be as drastic as if 800 were automatically keying VHF repeaters without any user input on VHF. At least with interference on EMS, MRD or VHF Polling, the users are on the same frequencies and in the same band.

 

[APX8000]

Just an FYI (from what I'm told as it was done after I left)...when NYCOMCO linked the 800 sites together, the dispatcher no longer selects which tower to talk on from that specifuc talkgroup. They actually took the multiple sites for the same talkgroup off the console screen. Now it's just 911 800, POLICE 800, SHERIFF 800, INTERSYSTEM 800, etc. The backbone will select all the towers automatically. Some do all (911 for example) and some do specific towers (Cornwall BASE 4 talkgroup comes off Beacon and Schunnemunk only). Also, the mobiles and portables are set to "wide area system scan" which should be option 06. So the radio will vote the closest tower and automatically switch. The user can still manually switch it, but doesn't have to as he/she drives throughout the county. Also, the sites are linked with one another, so a user answering on Beacon can be heard and talk to a user answering on Schunnemunk. So far, it's been working well.

When I worked there many moons ago, we had several sites for the same talkgroup...911 800 BCN, 911 800 GRM, 911 800 ARD, 911 800 SAM. We simulselected all the 800's and the closet VHF polling channel, whether it was Beacon, Graham, etc. No one could hear each other if they all answered on different sites. In other words, I poll a job in Blooming Grove (which has 3 zones and prior to Schunnemunk, 3 towers actually covered their town on 800) and I could have a unit answer me off Beacon 911, another on Sam 911 and another on Graham 911...then a SP unit on Graham VHF !

Currently, they still select the closet VHF polling site and the the one 800 talkgroup on the console.

Now Dutchess 911 for example, they dont even see the 800 side. All the VHF's are linked and simulcasted, so they select one box on the console and talk away and it comes over all towers. Field has one channel in their car and it comes over all towers. Then, a patch was put in for 800 users from the VHF to 800 and vice versa. Plus, the 800 sites are linked between one another. So a Fishkill unit on 800 Beacon can talk to a Poughkeepise unit on 800 Illinois who can talk to a SP unit on VHF. Only downfall, the Fishkill unit has to make sure his VHF radio is turned down or he/she will get some serious feedback when they key up.

If Orange County takes the same route and links.simulcasts the VHF...you'll see the 800 square disappear from the console and it will run in the background like Dutchess.