Orange County Tunked Talk Group IDs

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bigbill7

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Anyone out there living in and listening to Orange County public safety trunked system have the ability to share some talk group id info with me? Specifically I am trying to identify TG ID # 8208. I hear a static filled signal that makes voice id difficult. What I do recognize is fire alert tones, but I do not know how to decipher info from that data. I have researched the database entries for Orange County but TG 8208 is not present. Thanks for all replies.
 

loumaag

Silent Key - Aug 2014
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Odd. I mean if you are hearing a static filled transmission, then everyone on the system is hearing the same thing. Just on general principles, what you are hearing seems like it would be a rural FD, based on the all the rest of the high numbers on the TRS are rural FD's.

Maybe someone from the area (even over in SW Louisiana) could give a listen and give you a hand.
 

bigbill7

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Thanks for your thoughts, Lou. Maybe you can help me understand a point or two about trunked systems. What entity is responsible for administering a TRS? Is it proper form to approach such a body with inquiries about system details? What conventions are observed when assigning talk group IDs? What resource besides RR Database is there to utilize in identifying this TG? I agree that this is a Rural VFD that is located some distance from the input antenna site, hence the static passing through the repeater. Is there some minimum standard that a network member must adhere to in order to participate on the network? Otherwise, better reception would probably be accomplished via a VHF High Band system.

A lot of questions on my part, for sure, but I am just now getting back into the scanning hobby after a 15 year absence. Started in early seventies when things were nice and simple and slacked off about the time trunking first rolled out. Lot of catching up to do here.

P.S. I just monitored TGID 4720 that sounded like law talk amongst several mobiles that didn't sound local. If a group of, say, Federal agents (ICE?) were to conduct a local operation and were to operate on the local TRS, would they have to obtain a local TGID for the local system to recognize and handle their temporary traffic? Or would they already hold an ID that could work on any system in use where they show up?

Anyone feel free to jump in and enlighten me.
 

loumaag

Silent Key - Aug 2014
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Thanks for your thoughts, Lou. Maybe you can help me understand a point or two about trunked systems. What entity is responsible for administering a TRS? Is it proper form to approach such a body with inquiries about system details? What conventions are observed when assigning talk group IDs? What resource besides RR Database is there to utilize in identifying this TG? I agree that this is a Rural VFD that is located some distance from the input antenna site, hence the static passing through the repeater. Is there some minimum standard that a network member must adhere to in order to participate on the network? Otherwise, better reception would probably be accomplished via a VHF High Band system.

A lot of questions on my part, for sure, but I am just now getting back into the scanning hobby after a 15 year absence. Started in early seventies when things were nice and simple and slacked off about the time trunking first rolled out. Lot of catching up to do here.

P.S. I just monitored TGID 4720 that sounded like law talk amongst several mobiles that didn't sound local. If a group of, say, Federal agents (ICE?) were to conduct a local operation and were to operate on the local TRS, would they have to obtain a local TGID for the local system to recognize and handle their temporary traffic? Or would they already hold an ID that could work on any system in use where they show up?

Anyone feel free to jump in and enlighten me.
Okay, I will try to answer the above, but perhaps out of order.

  • As for who is responsible for the TRS, whatever agency that owns it. I would guess in this case it is Orange Co. I am sure they have a couple of folks that oversee it, but based on the size of the Orange Co., I would almost bet that a radio shop is contracted to keep the system up. As for approaching anyone, well in the past such queries are usually met with a stone wall; unless you know someone or have a "inside" track.
  • As for it being noise filled, remember, whatever you are hearing, is what everyone on the system is hearing. If you can't understand it, neither can anyone else. It would seem to me that whatever agency you are listening to probably isn't too happy with the performance either. There is the possibility that you are hearing a patched communication, which basically means that the agency you are hearing is not on the TRS at all and hence doesn't care if the TRS is noisy.
  • In relation to outside agency use of a TRS; most of the time this is accomplished by the TRS parent agency (or an entity on the TRS) supplying radios for a temporary operation. Sometimes regional task forces may indeed have radios programmed for several regional TRS' with the appropriate permissions. For an example think of the various Gulf Coast task forces around (violent offenders, drug, regional fugitive, etc.) and how it is beneficial for the agents/officers to have communication no matter where they are in the region. Obviously little used TG's don't come up very often and so are never identified. That may be the case for your 4720 TG.
  • As for how they get identified, by folks like you and me (and the rest of the users here and elsewhere) just listening, recording, logging and figuring it out. Unless you can get your hands on a TG breakdown from the system administration (highly unlikely), then the only way to figure them out is to listen.
 

bigbill7

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[*]As for who is responsible for the TRS, whatever agency that owns it. I would guess in this case it is Orange Co. I am sure they have a couple of folks that oversee it, but based on the size of the Orange Co., I would almost bet that a radio shop is contracted to keep the system up. As for approaching anyone, well in the past such queries are usually met with a stone wall; unless you know someone or have a "inside" track.

It just so happens that a field tech that works for the local franchise holder that services that brand system ( drives a white van with the Big Blue M******* ) lives two doors down and pleads ignorance on the whole subject of TRS. So much for the inside info. :)

[*]As for it being noise filled, remember, whatever you are hearing, is what everyone on the system is hearing. If you can't understand it, neither can anyone else. It would seem to me that whatever agency you are listening to probably isn't too happy with the performance either. There is the possibility that you are hearing a patched communication, which basically means that the agency you are hearing is not on the TRS at all and hence doesn't care if the TRS is noisy.

The patched comms makes perfect sense since it is obviously is a rural VFD and needs mutual aid from the numerous VFD's in this predominately rural county from time to time.


[*]In relation to outside agency use of a TRS; most of the time this is accomplished by the TRS parent agency (or an entity on the TRS) supplying radios for a temporary operation. Sometimes regional task forces may indeed have radios programmed for several regional TRS' with the appropriate permissions. For an example think of the various Gulf Coast task forces around (violent offenders, drug, regional fugitive, etc.) and how it is beneficial for the agents/officers to have communication no matter where they are in the region. Obviously little used TG's don't come up very often and so are never identified. That may be the case for your 4720 TG.

Once again your conjecture is logical and probably spot-on.

[*]As for how they get identified, by folks like you and me (and the rest of the users here and elsewhere) just listening, recording, logging and figuring it out. Unless you can get your hands on a TG breakdown from the system administration (highly unlikely), then the only way to figure them out is to listen.

Lou, many thanks once again for sharing your knowledge and experience. I have never been one to just idly sit by and listen without wondering and trying to understand the "hows & whys" of the systems and their protocols.
 

bigbill7

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The question I posed regarding the unpublished TG ID seems to be solved. Today, I have established that Vidor VFD broadcasts primarily on 154.385 mHz as KKU684. The transmission happens to be simulcast on the Orange County Trunked System apparently as unlisted TG ID 8208, albeit with an unusable signal for this station's modest antenna. The primary vhf signal booms into this shack via the screw-in whip atop the nearly 30 year old BC250.

Vidor is located on the far western border of Orange county while Orange, the county seat and home the the Orange TRS, is located in the far eastern border of the county along the Texas and Louisiana state line.

Vidor PD has a bunch of talk group IDs on the TRS, but still operates exclusively on their old UHF freq of 450.050 mHz as KNGT953 and is NOT simulcast.

Not that much of a mystery, but a puzzler in that it was undocumented as such in the database. Maybe an admin will make an update to the db or point me to the appropriate procedure for same.

Thanks to the admin and members for joining the discusion.
 

loumaag

Silent Key - Aug 2014
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...Maybe an admin will make an update to the db or point me to the appropriate procedure for same.
I certainly can make the change; however, I think it would be instructional for you to submit the change; go to the Orange Co. TRS and
click on the "Submit" tab. Just follow the instructions there. :wink:
 
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