Organizational HF radio use for disaster response operations

[empact]

Good afternoon-

I'm the operations director for a nationally and internationally deployable technical rescue task force. We currently use VHF for our radio communications, and HF when operating overseas with the UN. We'd like to be able to use HF during stateside deployments due it's longer range without repeaters. Is there a way to acquire an organizational license, as we did with our VHF license and frequency allocation, that will allow us to operate on HF without each member of our team going through the amateur licensure process? I'm having a hard time finding any reference to HF with the FCC, outside of amateurs. Thanks for your help.

//Jake

 

[rfradioconsult]

There are frequencies available for HF disaster communications under FCC Part 90, look under 90.264 and 90.266 for starters.

 

[krokus]

Keep in mind that HF is not practical for use on scene comms. You could use it to maintain a long haul link back to someplace, such as a CP or your base of operations. (Such as letting your Ops Officer talk with the IC, who is not on scene, etc.)

You could, if wanted, link your on scene comms to the HF, but that might introduce more problems than it solves.

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[empact]

Thanks for the feedback and the direction, I'll take a look at those sections of part 90.

Krokus- That's exactly our goal. Use the VHF for on scene communications and HF for long range comms between the CP and the team leaders in the field. We regularly operate over long distances with multiple teams. That being said, can you educate me as to why HF wouldn't also work for on scene? I'm very radio illiterate but want to understand these systems better in my role managing operations. My only experience has been using VHF and UHF on local networks with some very limited HF exposure and training via the UN. Thanks!

//Jake


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[empact]

So looking at the two subparts of part 90 referenced, it appears as though we are already authorized to operate on 2-10mhz since we already hold a public safety pool license for our VHF channel, so long as we use it only for disaster response and mitigation or for less than 7 hours a week for training exercises. Does that sound right?

//Jake


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[wa3hdi]

That's exactly our goal. Use the VHF for on scene communications and HF for long range comms between the CP and the team leaders in the field. We regularly operate over long distances with multiple teams. That being said, can you educate me as to why HF wouldn't also work for on scene? I'm very radio illiterate but want to understand these systems better in my role managing operations. My only experience has been using VHF and UHF on local networks with some very limited HF exposure and training via the UN.

Jake, it's in the nature of the band frequency differences.

HF uses longer antennas and routinely travels over local stations in order to reach distant stations (Skip, atmospheric, etc.). VHF uses shorter antennas and is usually line-of-sight between the local stations &/or uses repeaters.

It's often impractical for mobile team members to run a large, long whip antenna (1/4 of the frequency wavelength) on their handhelds or vehicles, but dipoles and other HF antenna designs are relatively easy to utilize at base stations.

Remember, the equation:
Wavelength (in meters) = 300,000,000 / Frequency (in Hz). For example, the wavelength of a 5 MHz HF signal is 300,000,000 / 5,000,000 = 60 meters. A 60 meter band antenna would therefore have to be at least 15 meters long or high.

Got it?

 

[prcguy]

You might be a valid candidate to apply for the HF license but your existing VHF license does not authorize you for HF. I have seen pools of HF frequencies available for your needs but you need a specific license to operate on them.
prcguy

So looking at the two subparts of part 90 referenced, it appears as though we are already authorized to operate on 2-10mhz since we already hold a public safety pool license for our VHF channel, so long as we use it only for disaster response and mitigation or for less than 7 hours a week for training exercises. Does that sound right?

//Jake


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[sloop]

Who are you affiliated with? The Red Cross, Salvation Army, etc. have license that cover their communications needs; even though they still utilize HAM radio, you would be able to use their frequencies.
That may not apply to 'independent contractors' I don't know. In a disaster, agencies don't want 'free lancers' interfering. They have a certain set of standards (ICS) that they require in order to help. There is a list of qualified individuals that the organizations have access to (at least in North Carolina) and use for disasters. If you are a concerned citizen and want to help, contact one of the local agencies, volunteer, and get trained. If you are already a member of one of the 'official' agencies contact their communications director and find out what you need.

 

[mmckenna]

Wait, if you are associated with the UN, they should have their own assigned frequencies under the ITU. I know they have pre-assugned UHF and VHF frequency pairs.

Interoperability is key, so getting your own licenses, even for use in the USA, might complicate things.

I'd be talking to your contact at the UN about this, not on a hobbyist website.

 

[jwt873]

The Red Cross, and other services use volunteer ham operators. They can't just use ham frequencies on their own.

For close in communications (to the horizon) VHF/UHF should work. If an emergency scene becomes large, 100 Miles (160 Km) across, then the lower HF frequencies 3 - 7 Mhz would come into play. At those frequencies the radio waves tend to follow the horizon. I have no problems talking directly to a friend 90 miles away from me on my ham HF car radio on 3.743 Mhz. I do this most mornings.

In the Australian outback many vehicles that travel in the wild country outside of cellular coverage and outside the range of conventional VHF/UHF radios are equipped with HF. http://www.exploroz.com/Vehicle/Accessories/HFRadio.aspx

 

[krokus]

Krokus- That's exactly our goal. Use the VHF for on scene communications and HF for long range comms between the CP and the team leaders in the field. We regularly operate over long distances with multiple teams. That being said, can you educate me as to why HF wouldn't also work for on scene? I'm very radio illiterate but want to understand these systems better in my role managing operations. My only experience has been using VHF and UHF on local networks with some very limited HF exposure and training via the UN.

Hopefully you read the explanation provided. The antennas are the primary reason hand carried radios are not effective.

For communication between camps, check into Near Vertical Incident Skywave, called NVIS. (Pronounced n-viz.) It can provide comms out to about 300 miles, depending on various factors.

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[mmckenna]

Satellite service might be an option, too. We've got some M-Sat stations here at work and they seem to do pretty well. Much easier to use, sounds better, easy to interface to your existing VHF/UHF system.

 

[empact]

Jake, it's in the nature of the band frequency differences.

HF uses longer antennas and routinely travels over local stations in order to reach distant stations (Skip, atmospheric, etc.). VHF uses shorter antennas and is usually line-of-sight between the local stations &/or uses repeaters.

It's often impractical for mobile team members to run a large, long whip antenna (1/4 of the frequency wavelength) on their handhelds or vehicles, but dipoles and other HF antenna designs are relatively easy to utilize at base stations.

Remember, the equation:
Wavelength (in meters) = 300,000,000 / Frequency (in Hz). For example, the wavelength of a 5 MHz HF signal is 300,000,000 / 5,000,000 = 60 meters. A 60 meter band antenna would therefore have to be at least 15 meters long or high.

Got it?

Makes sense, thanks. We're looking at primarily a base radio at the base camp/command post (CP) and manpack radios by Codan for our deployed teams. Once a team begins work in an assigned sector, their comms guy can set up the HF to manage comms back to CP on behalf of the team leader.

For close in communications (to the horizon) VHF/UHF should work. If an emergency scene becomes large, 100 Miles (160 Km) across, then the lower HF frequencies 3 - 7 Mhz would come into play. At those frequencies the radio waves tend to follow the horizon. I have no problems talking directly to a friend 90 miles away from me on my ham HF car radio on 3.743 Mhz. I do this most mornings.

In the Australian outback many vehicles that travel in the wild country outside of cellular coverage and outside the range of conventional VHF/UHF radios are equipped with HF. http://www.exploroz.com/Vehicle/Acce...s/HFRadio.aspx

Great reference site, thank you. This is the sort of distance that we need. We've literally sent teams 50-60 teams out from our primary base.

You might be a valid candidate to apply for the HF license but your existing VHF license does not authorize you for HF. I have seen pools of HF frequencies available for your needs but you need a specific license to operate on them.
prcguy

Any idea where I find the information on these licenses and how we apply? Is it through the ULS that we used for the VHF station?

Who are you affiliated with? The Red Cross, Salvation Army, etc. have license that cover their communications needs; even though they still utilize HAM radio, you would be able to use their frequencies.
That may not apply to 'independent contractors' I don't know. In a disaster, agencies don't want 'free lancers' interfering. They have a certain set of standards (ICS) that they require in order to help. There is a list of qualified individuals that the organizations have access to (at least in North Carolina) and use for disasters. If you are a concerned citizen and want to help, contact one of the local agencies, volunteer, and get trained. If you are already a member of one of the 'official' agencies contact their communications director and find out what you need.

We're an independent non-profit technical rescue organization. When operating in the United States we coordinate with FEMA and state/county DEM's, though under the direction of local authorities. Our mission is to provide highly technical rescue disciplines to communities after disasters where a) local authorities don't have the resources to manage the incident alone and b) they fall below the population threshold that warrants a full FEMA task force response. Our training, operations, and capabilities match those of a type 3+ USAR task force and all of our members are fully trained, certified, and credentialed in their respective specialities If you'd like to find out more about us, we're at EMPACT Northwest.

Unfortunately as a smaller organization, being the operations director makes me, by default, the communications director. My primary professional experience has been using VHF and UHF frequencies supported by a communications center, so the HF world is new to me.

Wait, if you are associated with the UN, they should have their own assigned frequencies under the ITU. I know they have pre-assugned UHF and VHF frequency pairs.

Interoperability is key, so getting your own licenses, even for use in the USA, might complicate things.

I'd be talking to your contact at the UN about this, not on a hobbyist website.

When working overseas, we're dialed because we are a coordinating team with the international USAR organization system, INSARAG and can access UN frequencies as needed. Likewise for the nationwide VHF and UHF channels licensed by FEMA. The problem is that the UN rarely (never) operates during US disasters, due to the fact that the US rarely (never) seeks support from the UN operational response system. So this UN connection means nothing in the US for radio operations.

Hopefully you read the explanation provided. The antennas are the primary reason hand carried radios are not effective.

For communication between camps, check into Near Vertical Incident Skywave, called NVIS. (Pronounced n-viz.) It can provide comms out to about 300 miles, depending on various factors.

Thanks, I'll take a look at that. My 5 minute Google makes it look pretty appealing.

Satellite service might be an option, too. We've got some M-Sat stations here at work and they seem to do pretty well. Much easier to use, sounds better, easy to interface to your existing VHF/UHF system.

Satellite is on our list as well, and we're currently bringing a B-Gan terminal on board to supplement our compact sat transceivers. The biggest drawback of th Satellite comms in the ongoing cost of subscriptions/minutes/data, etc. If there is a different version you're referring to though, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[sloop]

EMPACT, now that I know more about your organization, the first thing that I would do (if not already done) would be to get a MOU (memorandum of understanding) or SOU (statement of understanding) with each agency that you work with detailing among other things communications (frequencies) to be used. Many times when working for another agency you will be able to work under their 'umbrella' of MOU and license agreements. Get in touch with the FCC, find out what type of license you need for your specific function. Many of the FCC license will be honored by other countries in time of emergency. Do not forget the ARRL, they have MOU's with several agencies to provide communications for them. Other countries may do the same.

 

[NDRADIONUT]

Sat phone service could be knocked out in say an emp type disaster....

 

[mmckenna]

Sat phone service could be knocked out in say an emp type disaster....

Very true, but that would likely take out everything else, including HF gear unless it was properly hardened.
An EMP pulse strong enough to take out a satellite or constellation of satellites is going to be a bigger issue to deal with. That means GPS will be down, plus any radio equipment not properly protected from EMP. Anyway, the OP is talking about Search and Rescue, not global thermonuclear war.

We use M-Sat at work. It's a phone/radio service based off a satellite system. We use it for communications statewide. We have a talk group or two on the system as well as the ability to make telephone calls. We have access to other state agency talk groups if needed as well as a statewide "party line". Each site has at least one portable system. Our OES has one in a mobile pack and I set up a base antenna for them several years ago at our EOC so all they have to do is walk in and plug the antenna coax into a wall jack.

Not a cheap solution. Probably not a good choice unless you have a big budget or really use it a lot.
Sounds like HF is the right choice for you. In the USA, the FCC Part 90 rules cover what you need. That was mentioned above, so I won't really add any more to it.
Do take a look at the other agencies that use it and see how you can interoperate. The real trick with HF systems is making sure your groups are fully trained on how to use them and how to use them effectively. There's an art to maintaining HF communications, a lot different than VHF/UHF. Unfortunately many agencies steer away from HF because they either don't want to train staff or they want a "plug, play, talk" solution that anyone can use without training.

 

[mmckenna]

we're at EMPACT Northwest.

And, thanks for posting that, it really adds to the credibility.
Due to this being a mostly hobby based site, there are the occasional "wannabee's" that show up with grandiose plans about how they are going to save the world with their walkie talkies. Well intended individuals, but often not really well organized and not willing to take any direction.

Knowing that Empact is a legitimate organization helps a bunch.

What you need to do is talk to an FCC frequency coordinator. There are specific coordination groups for specific industries. They are the ones that can really assist you in getting licensed for HF frequencies here in the USA. APCO might be a good place to start, but there are others:
https://www.apcointl.org/spectrum-management/frequency-coordination.html