ORION system updates

[PJH]

I am in the process of updating the ORION database. There has been some backend stuff that has needed to be fixed for some time and its fallen out of how most area trunked systems are setup in the region. I have merged the Sarpy County information in and depreciated the sarpy system.

I just got called into work so some of the sorting right now is off, but I'll work on it over the next day or so

 

[topnik]

I am in the process of updating the ORION database. There has been some backend stuff that has needed to be fixed for some time and its fallen out of how most area trunked systems are setup in the region. I have merged the Sarpy County information in and depreciated the sarpy system.

I just got called into work so some of the sorting right now is off, but I'll work on it over the next day or so

Thank you for your work on this!

 

[topnik]

Might be a silly question, but now that these systems are merged, does that mean if I see TGs while monitoring the Sarpy site that are not Sarpy TGs and I see them listed as, oh, say...Omaha Fire and they're using TDMA but not listed as such in the database, I should submit an update to those non-Sarpy TGs? I reckon so, but I don't know if there might be differences - I don't know if anyone on the system has the 'auto degrade' option where if a non-Ph2 radio is on a Ph2 TG then the TG 'degrades' to the lowest common denominator (FDMA).

I guess I could just post it here and we can discuss it...maybe I answered my own silly question.

 

[PJH]

There is a software feature that if a P1 radio affialtes on a P2 talkgroup, the talkgroup will revert to P1. Its called dual dynamic mode, and is a system feature if purchased, not a field radio feature.

 

[topnik]

There is a software feature that if a P1 radio affialtes on a P2 talkgroup, the talkgroup will revert to P1. Its called dual dynamic mode, and is a system feature if purchased, not a field radio feature.

Understood...that's what I was talking about. Anybody know if that feature is implemented on ORION or Sarpy's part of it?

 

[scanomaha]

OK... I have to vent a little... Hopefully the Database Admins read this:::
It would be Extremely helpful if any talkgroup on the ORION system (or any system for that matter) that is listed as "DE" Fully Encrypted..>>

Is it asking too much to please put the word "Secure" in either the alpha tag, or the Description?... This way.... while adding , or building a system or favorites list to put into a scanner using whatever software ... we can easily tell what talkgroups are Encrypted, so we can avoid putting in a totally encrypted TG in a scanner...all an encrypted TG does is totally hose up a scanner when it stops on something that is 100% encrypted...

as Sentinel software does NOT list what mode the TG is...example below is Bellevue TG 4225 RR database has it listed as "DE" 100% Encrypted...and as you can see from the screen shot from Sentinel software...we have no way of know TG 4225 is Encrypted...other than always going back and looking at RR database... would be NICE is the name said "Police 16 secure" what a concept



..

 

[PJH]

Im mobile, so this may not be the greatest reply but...

the policy of the DB is to not cater to any specific software or scanner. We also do not duplicate information in the database to make descriptions or alpha tags longer or have extra information that the database provides for.

that being said, depending on how the agency talkgroups are setup, or officially named (using really talkgroup info), usually ENC is added, if it fits the rest of the agency/town/whatever.

now with that being said, DE or De is the identifier in the database. In the past, it became a bad habit to add in a bunch of information that was already provided for in the existing fields.

Also FWIW, Uniden scanners see the DE field from the DB download and will not scan or attempt to scan that talkgroup.

So it can be added to your list, but it doesn’t hurt it as the scanners won’t see it on a normal scan. Discovery modes will see it, but not normal scan.

 

[PJH]

I also forgot to add, especially for the alpha tags, you only get x amount of characters for the field. We are inclined to put in user and function in that field than encryption setting for a greater user experience.

itseasier to read “Bellevue PD 16”
Than “BelvePD16ENC” - especially when all the other talkgroups can remain consistent in a standard naming convention.

 

[scanomaha]

ok, i am just saying "ENC" in the description is nice to have, as I understand that you only get x amount of characters in that field...
with that said ....seems like plenty of room in the description field...

Example:: TG 4002 in the RR DB has a description that is 35 characters long (and that includes the spaces)
Law Enforcement Records/Information

seems like adding "ENC" to the description would have plenty of room... the Alpha Tag field may be more restrained ?
its just not consistent...
wondering if we submit changes to the DB if that would help? ... it's really not catering to any specific scanner software, but it may make things a little bit more clear as to what is encrypted and what is not , other that just "DE" in the mode field.

 

[PJH]

Alpha tags are restrained. Secure I normally notate only when a channel name or use is submitted that is obscure or unknown by the submitter and channel name needs to be unique

Inwhat youhave shown above, that is why it’s listed that way. If someone has seen a radio file where it is “east patrol 1” and “east patrol 2”, it would be changed to reflect that.

you asked that it be changed to “reflect usage”. The secure field does exactly that.

 

[scanomaha]

I was asking if we submit TG descriptions ... (not Alpha Tags) that would say something like>> "East Patrol 2 ENC" ... if the ENC could be added to the description field... not necessarily the alpha tag field.

 

[PJH]

Your best bet is to contact uniden or post in the Uniden forums to Paul Optiz to request a software enhancement for setnal to show the field in Uniden software packages. Radioreference makes this field accessible in the API’s to all who wants to download the database for their products.

 

[wa8pyr]

I was asking if we submit TG descriptions ... (not Alpha Tags) that would say something like>> "East Patrol 2 ENC" ... if the ENC could be added to the description field... not necessarily the alpha tag field.

As PJH already noted, it is against RR policy to duplicate information or cater to a specific software package or scanner brand. Placing ENC in a Description field would duplicate the Mode field which already clearly shows that the talkgroup is encrypted, while doing it because Sentinel doesn't differentiate between encrypted and clear talkgroups would be catering to that specific software package.

Our goal is to have an accurate database which serves everyone equally, without duplication of information or preferential treatment.

If Sentinel doesn't do it for you, you might contact Uniden to suggest changes, or you could try a different software package which meets your needs more effectively.

 

[scanomaha]

just wondering how come some descriptions have "secure" in the description field and other DE TG's don't?
It's not catering to any software... just wondering why RR has some DE talkgroups description that say "secure"...and other DE TG don't
its simply a description..not any duplication of data.

 

[PJH]

Because how those were summitted were unclear. In the example above, as I have already explained, was both were submitted as east or west LE, but one was secure and one was not. It’s has not been determined what the actual use or designation of the 2nd talkgroup is, but is known it’s a west one.

so again in this example, west and west secure makes sense so we do not have two “west” fields and not knowning whic is which.
If someone submits that 4003 is “west 1” and 4254 is “west 2”, then the descriptions would both be changed to show just that.

right now, a plain “west” and “west secure” fits the needs of the general user base. Once 4254 is known as something else, it will be changed and “secure” will be dropped from the description field.

 

[scanomaha]

4003 is simply called "LE West"
I will keep listening and logging radio traffic, and see if i can determine what they call their LE West secure channel.
thanks