"Other" Digital formats

[iamhere300]

Can this radio be upgraded (converted) to P25 conventional only or P25 trunking as well?

John

John,

I had lost this thread, but finally came back across it. Glad to see someone else posted the verification of the 210.

When this was originally posted on PWF, I "believe" that the trunking option was not going to be there for
P25 operation. It might be on the archives there.

 

[N_Jay]

I think this is a good idea. I've seen some comments regarding MotoTRBO that aren't 100% correct (for example, that it's proprietary to Motorola), and a section on Understanding MotoTRBO would be a good place for accurate information to be posted.

John

And then we see people trying to "correct" facts that are not wrong.

MotoTRBO is proprietary to Motorola (at least at this time).
It is based on a standard, but;
1) The standard was not complete
2) No one else builds anything to that standard
3) If you were to build to the standard it probably would not interoperate with MotoTRBO

 

[JRayfield]

1. I believe the standard is complete. I've downloaded it from the ETSI website.

2. Just because no one else is building a compatible product doesn't make it 'proprietary'. At one time, only one manufactuerer built P25 radios (there had to be a 'first'). That didn't make P25 'proprietary'. At this time, Tait is licensed to build MotoTRBO equipment and there is a company in Europe building MotoTRBO compatible repeaters.

3. Your statement "probably would not interoperate with MotoTRBO" is an assumption (that is not correct - as proven by the fact that another company builds a repeater that is compatible).

John

And then we see people trying to "correct" facts that are not wrong.

MotoTRBO is proprietary to Motorola (at least at this time).
It is based on a standard, but;
1) The standard was not complete
2) No one else builds anything to that standard
3) If you were to build to the standard it probably would not interoperate with MotoTRBO

 

[N_Jay]

I have also look at the specification , but not recently.

Do you have a link to this second source or the TAIT information?

 

[JRayfield]

I don't think most people realize that even P25 has to be licensed from Motorola before a manufacturer can produce P25 equipment. Here's a link to a website that discusses this licensing for P25, Tetra, and DMR (MotoTRBO):

Government & Public Safety Licensing - Motorola

Here's a link to a company in Europe that builds DMR repeaters:

http://www.selex-comms.com/internet/?section=CORP&open0=5&showentry=5306

Here's a link to the DMR Association's website where a news release mentions the use of DMR equipment from Selex and Motorola that was used at the G8 Summit in Italy this year:

DMR Digital Mobile Radio Association - Press Release

John

 

[JRayfield]

Here's a link to Tait DMR:

DMR Networks - Tait Electronics Ltd - North America

I've tried to find a specific link to a brochure or spec sheet on the DMR repeater from Europe, but I can't find it now. I'll post it as soon as I find it.

Here's another interesting link:

http://www.etherstack.com/pdf/dmr.pdf

John

 

[Raccon]

I don't think most people realize that even P25 has to be licensed from Motorola before a manufacturer can produce P25 equipment. Here's a link to a website that discusses this licensing for P25, Tetra, and DMR (MotoTRBO):

But note that nanufacturer's don't license directly from Motorola. From the website you linked (underline by me):

Once identified, Motorola declares the patent to the TIA, and P25 licensees automatically gain access to these patents without additional cost or administrative burden.

Once identified, Motorola declares the patent to ETSI and TETRA licensees automatically gain access to these patents without additional cost or administrative burden.

 

[JRayfield]

Actually, you took those points slightly out of context. From the website:

With reference to all standards.....

===========================================================================
"Motorola’s Standards-Based Essential Licensing program is based on a core set of patents that are essential* to the respective standard. This program makes Motorola’s essential patents available to prospective licensees on a fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory basis. Licensing terms within the respective programs are substantially identical, with minor adjustments to accommodate unique situations. Royalty rates are expressed in fixed amounts, and may be adjusted from time to time in response to market conditions, technology maturity and portfolio coverage."
===========================================================================

So, there may be costs associated with a company licensing any of the standards, and they are licensed from Motorola. Actually, I asked ETSI about this, some months ago, and was told that I would need to contact Motorola with regards to licensing DMR. They told me that they don't get involved in the licensing process.

With reference to P25....
===========================================================================
Financial terms are dependent upon a prospective licensee’s P25 Essentials patent holdings, if any. Royalty rates are expressed in a fixed amount and are reviewed periodically to ensure they remain in line with market trends, technology maturity and portfolio coverage.
===========================================================================

With reference to Tetra....

===========================================================================
"Financial terms are dependent upon the prospective licensee’s TETRA Essentials Patent holdings, if any, and are linked to an industry normalized equipment index. Royalty rates are expressed in a fixed amount and are reviewed periodically to ensure they remain in line with market trends, technology maturity and portfolio coverage."
===========================================================================

With reference to DMR.....

===========================================================================
"Financial terms are dependent upon the prospective licensee’s DMR Essentials Patent holdings, if any, and are linked to an industry normalized equipment index. Royalty rates are expressed in a fixed amount and are reviewed periodically to ensure they remain in line with market trends, technology maturity and portfolio coverage."
===========================================================================

As to there being 'no additional cost'....
===========================================================================
"Motorola’s P25 Essentials Licensing program grants rights to Motorola's P25 Essential patent families. Since Motorola’s patent portfolio is large and expanding, additional patents determined to be essential to the P25 standard are occasionally identified. Once identified, Motorola declares the patent to the TIA, and P25 licensees automatically gain access to these patents without additional cost or administrative burden.
===========================================================================

So, there is no "additional" cost, when patents are added to the patent portfolio, after a company has already obtained licensing (and paid for it) from Motorola. According to the website, the same basic 'rules' are applied to P25, Tetra, and DMR.

The point that I was originally making is clear - DMR is definitely an open standard, exactly the same as P25, and Motorola is strongly promoting it that way, just like like they do P25 and Tetra. The statement that people keep making, that DMR (MotoTRBO) is 'proprietary', is no more true than if that statement was made with reference to P25 or Tetra.

John

 

[burner50]

Maybe a Mod will separate this into two threads.
1) MotoTRBO agencies
2) Understanding MotoTRBO

Hopefully this will be sufficient?

 

[JRayfield]

I think this will work quite well.

Thanks Jason!

John

 

[martufello]

Hi,

this another European manufactor producing DMR repeters Radio Activity Srl - DIGITAL MOBILE RADIO -RETI RADIO SIMULCAST - PUNTO-PUNTO

Regards

 

[Raccon]

Actually, you took those points slightly out of context. From the website:

[...]

Got it (and agree), thanks for the explanation.