"Other" Digital formats

[FARMER522]

This might be a dumb question but will a Kenwood NEXEDGE radio and a Motorola MotoTRBO radio communicate between each other? Also will either of these radios communicate to a P25 radio system?


Mod Note: Thread split from: http://forums.radioreference.com/tennessee-radio-discussion-forum/159646-nxdn-trbo-agencies.html

 

[CqDx]

This might be a dumb question but will a Kenwood NEXEDGE radio and a Motorola MotoTRBO radio communicate between each other? Also will either of these radios communicate to a P25 radio system?

Nope, all 3 protocols uses very different modulation techniques,

NEXEDGE uses 4 level FSK and FDMA for channeling
MotoTRBO uses AMBE+ and TDMA
Project 25 uses C4FM and CQPSK (depending on system type)

 

[SCPD]

This might be a dumb question but will a Kenwood NEXEDGE radio and a Motorola MotoTRBO radio communicate between each other? Also will either of these radios communicate to a P25 radio system?

In a word, no and no.
NXDN (NEXEDGE) and MotoTRBO are proprietary digital formats to each company Kenwood and Motorola respectively.
and neither digital format is compatible with P25 or with each other.

 

[SlGlNT]

Nope, all 3 protocols uses very different modulation techniques,

NEXEDGE uses 4 level FSK and FDMA for channeling
MotoTRBO uses AMBE+ and TDMA
Project 25 uses C4FM and CQPSK (depending on system type)

In a word, no and no.
NXDN (NEXEDGE) and MotoTRBO are proprietary digital formats to each company Kenwood and Motorola respectively.
and neither digital format is compatible with P25 or with each other.

You guys left out another format. Most MotoTRBO and NXDN radios are capable of analog. So yes the radios would still be able to communicate between each other. Just not in digital.

 

[CqDx]

You guys left out another format. Most MotoTRBO and NXDN radios are capable of analog. So yes the radios would still be able to communicate between each other. Just not in digital.

Yep

To make things more confusing, Kenwood makes radio that is capable of Project 25 modulation, so you can have a radio made by Kenwood that talks to another radio capable of Project 25 made by a different manufacturer, hence the term CAI - Common Air Interface.

The one thing I don't get is "Common Air Interface" has long been around since the dawn of radio, and it's called analog. I'll leave that off to another thread.

 

[INDY72]

CAI Refers to ALL standard communications interfaces for radio.. The P-25 IMBE CAI is the standard for APCO-P-25 phase I... Digital... Comms.

 

[INDY72]

Yeah this is whats troubling,.. In this day and age when every one is trying to become interoperable on one format.. You suddenly have a bunch of agencies switching to an non interop format... They get the NXDN, and TRBO to meet the digital/narrowband requirements cheaply... But then kill the whole purpose of interop except to use the old analog conventional methods....It makes one ponder when you have Public Safety that wants to be an island to itself...

 

[FARMER522]

That is what I figured.So much for interop I thought that is what was being preached Interop Interop or at least that is what I always hear in my area.Thanks guys for the info

 

[iamhere300]

The ICOM and Kenwood 6.25 digital products work fine with each other. Icom calls it IDAS but it uses the NXDN common air interface.

Mototrbo was never intended to be used as a public safety radio - but at dealers meetings the corporate folks were pummeled by dealers talking about how easy they could sell to public safety. Corporate went back and shifted their advertising emphasis to include "small" public safety systems.

No change to the equipment, just advertising.

I still feel that any agency that buys sole source should be investigated. At least with the NXDN you have multiple manufacturers to buy from.

Some of the kenwood can be changed to P25 later as an upgrade. (Doing so removes the NXDN
capability)

 

[N_Jay]

Some of the kenwood can be changed to P25 later as an upgrade. (Doing so removes the NXDN
capability)

Any details on this?

 

[n4yek]

Any details on this?

I had heard that myself, about the upgrade to make them P25.

 

[N_Jay]

I had heard that myself, about the upgrade to make them P25.

We all hear lots of things.

For some reason this industry loves running on rumors.
It is so easy to repeat them instead of confirm them.

In my world, I can't afford to "accidentally" believe a false rumor.

I would think Kenwood would be advertising such a capability if they had it. (Nothing seen yet)

 

[INDY72]

Kenwood is researching dual digital capability for future radios. I they make a available rework for NXDN to P-25, that would require an entire redo of the radios hardware, and software. Thats a lot of work, and money your talking there. I don't forsee that happening. The possibility of a radio capable of NXDN, P-25, and analog is possibly feasable , though still a few years away.By the time they could actually do this, the P-25 format will be entering TDMA application.

 

[N_Jay]

Kenwood is researching dual digital capability for future radios.

Rumor or substantiated?

 

[INDY72]

As told to me by an Kenwood employee. I am going to assume this is an attempt to appeal to the ones that have need to communicate with agencies on both. Would be a small market though. I could see say railroad security/police needing it. If this is an actual thing that gets beyond the sounds good on paper phase, it will be years in development.I would love to be able to talk to any Icom people about thier end since NXDN is a joint thing.... If one makes a special project, then both will. As for MotoTRBO,... The idiots in sales going out of thier minds pushing this on ANY Public Safety agency as a cheap format for meeting the *now 2020* narrowband digital deadline should have boot to butt therapy! Same for the marketing divisions of Kenwood/Icom for even dreaming of pushing NexEDGE on Public Safety. And for any Emergency Communications Coordinator for ANY agency that thinks going cheaper and snapping up an NexEDGE, or MotoTRBO system is the best idea, you need to have your head examined.

 

[N_Jay]

As told to me by an Kenwood employee.

I would not believe it at face value unless I was confident that the particular Kenwood employee was in the position to know.
(Most sales and service personnel have little to no access to product plans.)

I am going to assume this is an attempt to appeal to the ones that have need to communicate with agencies on both.

I would assume it is BS, but that is based on the Kenwood and Icom people I know.

If this is an actual thing that gets beyond the sounds good on paper phase, it will be years in development.

Maybe, maybe not. It would depend on how much common hardware design already exists between the lines.

I would love to be able to talk to any Icom people about their end since NXDN is a joint thing.... If one makes a special project, then both will.

I would not assume that.
They worked together on the air interface, and some marketing, but I don't see any indication of common product development on the NXDN side or the P25 side.

The idiots in sales going out of thier minds pushing this on ANY Public Safety agency as a cheap format for meeting the *now 2020* narrowband digital deadline should have boot to butt therapy! Same for the marketing divisions of Kenwood/Icom for even dreaming of pushing NexEDGE on Public Safety. And for any Emergency Communications Coordinator for ANY agency that thinks going cheaper and snapping up an NexEDGE, or MotoTRBO system is the best idea, you need to have your head examined.

With this, I agree.

 

[hcpholder]

I just received mail promotional material from BearCom.com promoting MotoTrbo radio equipment rental and leasing. Is that common practice?

 

[N_Jay]

I just received mail promotional material from BearCom.com promoting MotoTrbo radio equipment rental and leasing. Is that common practice?

Radio rental has been around a long time.

BearCom capitalized on it very successfully.

 

[LTR]

The new Kenwood P25 radios look exactly like the NexEdge radios. I have also heard that a NexEdge radio can be "flashed" to change it to P25, but not both formats in the same radio. I have not seen anything in writing on this though. Here is a link to the new P25 radios:

Kenwood - TK-5220-5320

 

[N_Jay]

The new Kenwood P25 radios look exactly like the NexEdge radios. I have also heard that a NexEdge radio can be "flashed" to change it to P25, but not both formats in the same radio. I have not seen anything in writing on this though. Here is a link to the new P25 radios:

Kenwood - TK-5220-5320

Can you show me which models "look exactly the same"?

There is certainly a strong resemblance, but when you consider the intentional design similarity to build a "company look", the unintentional design similarity due to probably using the same design team, and the functional similarity; I would not use "looks" to draw any conclusions of compatibility.

I have done some looking and find NOTHING than backs up this rumor. (but this industry loves its rumors)