I went by the Bluesfest site today and noticed they're using Motorola XPR radios. I haven't heard any related chatter on the popular DMR systems lately; does anybody know what system (or frequencies) they might be using?
Ottawa Bluesfest
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DaveH
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If you've narrowed it down to UHF DMR, it could be one of the big networks like 201 or 202 but sounds like you may have checked already. Likely a site close to downtown, as is the case for NCC event operations. However even if using same system as last year, the TGs and RIDs will likely be different, the way it goes with rental radios.
Funny, I thought someone may have found them last year, but could be my imagining it; checked the forum and didn't see anything.
"Smaller" outfits such as CTM and Exelradio tend to rent radios for events. Some are on the Quebec side. Unfortunately these systems are not well documented if at all...you may have to go looking.
See if you can capture a frequency then work backwards using IC database. Not sure how well Close-call etc. work with DMR repeater inputs or simplex. Another tactic might be to scan the input sub-bands 456-460, 465-469, and 427-430 using a very small antenna (paper clip, termination, or nothing), on or close to the site.
Dave
Funny, I thought someone may have found them last year, but could be my imagining it; checked the forum and didn't see anything.
"Smaller" outfits such as CTM and Exelradio tend to rent radios for events. Some are on the Quebec side. Unfortunately these systems are not well documented if at all...you may have to go looking.
See if you can capture a frequency then work backwards using IC database. Not sure how well Close-call etc. work with DMR repeater inputs or simplex. Another tactic might be to scan the input sub-bands 456-460, 465-469, and 427-430 using a very small antenna (paper clip, termination, or nothing), on or close to the site.
Dave
I'm volunteering at the festival, so I will have a radio at some point. I don't imagine there's any way to check on the radio itself, but I will look for any rental stickers. I'll also look into how to use the Close Call functionality on my 436HP. Thanks for the advice.
I would put money that it is on a Moto Turbo system. Check around 460mhz. Just saying.
DaveH
Member
Rental sticker should help narrow it down. Probably no easy way to get at the system/frequency data from the keyboard and access would probably be locked anyway. Moto Tier 3 DMR (trunking) is fairly complex; I believe there are two levels of software (CPS) involved, outside the scope of this exercise.
Best bet would be the input scanning. Also suggest turning on attenuator to pick up only local radios. Some UHF systems use 420-421MHz for which inputs are -11.0MHz (409-410) but nothing local, can skip that.
Dave
My mistake. I believe they are on a DMR.
CC may work especially if you have a unit. Sometimes ion a on site DMR system if you wait until someone talks and try to tx the radio will key long enough for CC to capture the freq. Its very hit or miss. I usually use a SDR for this type of thing. It actal like a spectrum analyzer so you can home in fast on the active freqs with very few keyups.
The radios at Bluesfest had Bell Mobility stickers on them, so I combed through all the Bell frequencies listed in the TAFL under "QUEEN ELIZABETH TOWER A" (the only logical location I found under Bell's name) and found this system:
451.3500 CAP+ Color 1, OTTAWA (QUEEN ELIZABETH TOWER A) Bell Mobility Inc.
454.0250 CAP+ Color 1, OTTAWA (QUEEN ELIZABETH TOWER A) Bell Mobility Inc.
TG's I've heard on this system are TG 72, 74, 82, 83, 84, 85, 89, 90, most of which had Bluesfest-related traffic on them. TG 121 had way different radio IDs and was definitely not Bluesfest, so it seems there are other users of this system. The frequencies are still listed in the TAFL as analog.
I also found this (seemingly) single-frequency CON+ site at the same transmitter address:
451.0750 CON+ Color 1, Net 202, Site 1, OTTAWA (QUEEN ELIZABETH TOWER A) Bell Mobility Inc.
Haven't heard any TGs on that one though.
451.3500 CAP+ Color 1, OTTAWA (QUEEN ELIZABETH TOWER A) Bell Mobility Inc.
454.0250 CAP+ Color 1, OTTAWA (QUEEN ELIZABETH TOWER A) Bell Mobility Inc.
TG's I've heard on this system are TG 72, 74, 82, 83, 84, 85, 89, 90, most of which had Bluesfest-related traffic on them. TG 121 had way different radio IDs and was definitely not Bluesfest, so it seems there are other users of this system. The frequencies are still listed in the TAFL as analog.
I also found this (seemingly) single-frequency CON+ site at the same transmitter address:
451.0750 CON+ Color 1, Net 202, Site 1, OTTAWA (QUEEN ELIZABETH TOWER A) Bell Mobility Inc.
Haven't heard any TGs on that one though.
DaveH
Member
Interestingly, last night I scanned the input ranges, from several km distance, and found 459.025 had a lot of activity on it, though did not know the nature of traffic. Its output is 454.025.
Over time I've "listened" to enough DMR signals on old analog receivers, enough to recognize the difference in sound between idle channels transmitting data, and busy voice channels, especially on both timeslots.
Dave
I searched all the frequencies at that site, and heard only static on all but 3 channels. They're all still listed in the TAFL as analog, so it's entirely possible they're being used for that purpose. I'm going to try to set up DSD+ over the weekend to pull some more info from the systems (enough useful information for the database).
These were my raw notes (I know some must be input frequencies but not all of them have a ±5MHz frequency pair):
== Bell QE Tower (Bluesfest?) ==
451.0750 CON Net 202 Color 1 Site 1
451.3500 CAP Color 1 (TG 84, 85, 90, 72, 82, 89, 74, 83)
451.4500 ????
451.5000 ????
452.1000 ????
452.2875 ????
452.7750 ????
454.0250 CAP Color 1 (same TG as 451.3500)
456.0875 ????
456.3625 ????
456.4625 ????
456.5125 ????
457.1125 ????
457.2875 (likely TX pair for 452.2875)
457.7875 ????
459.0250 (likely TX pair for 454.0250)
I will certainly do that once I've got it all figured out. Incidentally, I discovered another Connect+ radio system by CTM in Gatineau while I was searching for this one.
Just because TAFL says analog thats not necessarily true as you have found out. Usually systems like these will use what ever mode the rental equipment is designed for. Its sad to say that some shops are not aware that they are supposed to notify IC of such changes.
mbstone99
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Eric Carlson has added the trunk system for the database:
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=9468
Enjoy!
DaveH
Member
Eric Carlson has added the trunk system for the database:
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=9468
Enjoy!
The frequencies are not right...the original two found 451.350 and 454.025 are correct. Any others belong to other systems, or do not seem to be active at this point.
Dave
DaveH
Member
My error...452.2875 seems active now...but 451.075 is out.
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Amendments have been made.https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=9468
451.075 is GOTRBO and couldn't possibly be on this system.
Perhaps that explains security talkgroup 121, unrelated to Bluesfest.
mmisk
Member
This is what site I have listed for 451.075:
Con+, 202, 1, 1, 451.45000, 0.0, 0 41
Con+, 202, 1, 3, 451.07500, 0.0, 0 42
Con+, 202, 1, 5, 460.02600, 0.0, 0 43
Looking now so see if the tracking is correct.
Con+, 202, 1, 1, 451.45000, 0.0, 0 41
Con+, 202, 1, 3, 451.07500, 0.0, 0 42
Con+, 202, 1, 5, 460.02600, 0.0, 0 43
Looking now so see if the tracking is correct.
I would've thought the same, but I double (and triple) checked, and TG 121 is *definitely* on the CAP+ system. It isn't keyed up very often, but I heard things like "going on my lunch" and "finished my rounds" so I assumed it was some kind of security. The radio IDs were totally different from Bluesfest (in the 3000 range, whereas Bluesfest radios are 10000+).
I'll try to glean some more information about it and amend the database if I can. It would also be nice to find the frequency for timeslots 5/6.
Thanks everybody for bearing with me through this process. I don't have a ton of equipment on my hands, and I'm not super well-versed on the RadioReference conventions; I'm learning as I go.
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