Out side antenna

[Voyager]

Voyager..You really don't understand a discone and how it works.

Very insightful. Was the giveaway my statement that I said I guessed about how they work?

Now, from a practical application, and comparison testing, I have lots of experience.

That said, if you know that I don't know, then educate me as to exactly how they work technically. Let's keep the discussion based on the basic model (no vertical radiator) so as to not muddy the water.

And if you put a low band radiator on top, like I did, it does great on low band.

I was keeping my comments based on the basic Discone, not a modified one. At least one of the ones I tried had the additional radiator for Low Band. But, the basic Discone has no vertical element.

At least as good as a low band ground plane. Talking to Canada and northern NH multiple times from Florida with only 100 watts doesn't happen by negative gain and bad radiation angles. The opening was mediocre at best during the last VHF contest, so it wasn't just good conditions either. I even worked a few Idaho stations on a double hop last summer. Got the logs to prove it. That's proof to me.

And I've talked over 1000 miles on UHF using a stock rubber duck and an HT. And that was on FM. It doesn't take much of a band opening to talk long distances. Proof of long distance communication is not proof of antenna efficiency. A friend of mine talked to Europe only to find later that his antenna was not connected to the jumper. He was essentially radiating off the PL259 on the end and/or the shield. But I would not recommend a PL259 as a good antenna.

And that is the thing that I can't understand about your posts. You keep showing how much you don't know, but you always try to come off as an expert...and never wrong about anything. Come to think of it, that is a good question. Can you admit you are ever wrong about anything? If so, what?

Well, my statement about not knowing exactly how the Discones work could be one example. And that's in this thread. I also stated earlier that I was trying to figure out why some have better experiences with Discones contrary to the experiences of many others.

There has to be an explanation. I'm trying to figure out what it is. I never stop trying to learn new things.

So far, the one commonality I've found is that those who find Discones work better are usually in dense RF environments. I can't help but think that is a clue.

 

[Voyager]

As for the Antenna Craft ST-2 and clones, I don’t own one but I can say it has no more gain than a 1/2 wave dipole at any frequency and probably less. It’s not possible to have 6dB or even 3dB gain over a dipole based on its “nest of dipoles” design. It will also be somewhat narrow band around its design frequencies, unlike a Discone which works the same everywhere except for the pattern skewing at higher frequencies mentioned above.
prcguy

A 5/8 wave VHF dipole will have 3 dB of gain. That is a given. That is the primary element design of the ST-2 not considering any other elements.

So, adding two more quarter wave dipoles to that should be close to another 3 dB of gain. Again, that is looking at it as a VHF antenna. Other bands will vary, but I believe your gain figures are low simply because there is much more than a 1/2 wave dipole in the design.

I'm focusing on VHF because that is where most of my testing was done.

What ST-2 clones are there? I've never seen any.

 

[SOFA_KING]

I learned about so many antennas, and I believe about how the discone works, from the ARRL Antenna Handbook(s). The 1970's version had an article in it about how to build a home made VHF or UHF collinear gain antenna out of carefully measured (calculated with velocity factor of the type of coax used) sections of common coax. The more sections you added, the more gain it had. In the early days of my radio hobby I built one of these when I couldn't afford to buy a 2m antenna, and it worked! The funny part of this story is when one day in the late 80's I joined an antenna work party up on Mt Graylock in northwestern MA to install a new 220 antenna and reconfigure the 2m antenna (once famous for its incredible coverage in the northeast on 146.910) to make space for the 220 antenna. I met the man who made that original Graylock 2m antenna while I was assisting to remove this 40' long home maid antenna (hung in a PVC tube with rope) with a gentleman named Jud Snyder (K2CBA). I told Jud I built one of these things after reading an article in the Antenna Handbook, and Jud told me he wrote that article. I believe Jud was once working for Phelps Dodge and might have been the father of the Station Master antenna used everywhere. It is basically the same design, but made of coax and not the metal (brass or copper I think) the commercial version is made of. We talked a lot about the design, and man did I learn a lot. What were the odds of a chance meeting like that? I was blown away. That area had some extremely knowledgeable and talented hams that came from major technical academia and worked as heavyweights in the communications industry. Talk about influential Elmers! But I don't know anything compared to these giants. All I could do was listen and learn as much as my pea sized brain could absorb.

And that is my point here. Listen and learn. I do believe my discone is somewhat effected by that low band element on top. When I swept it, there were changes and some bad areas of resonance that were not there before, but not on the bands of interest. In fact, the first 6m whip I put on top was mounted in that coil section with the coil shunted. The thin whip was just a bit too short, so I had a friend tap out a 3/8 24 base for a thicker 9' stainless CB antenna so I could trim that down to 52 MHz. My sweeps were telling me it would work and cover all of 6m if I just had that extra length, and it did...plus the whip thickness helped on the extra bandwidth. While the top whip was removed, I ran my usual multi-scanner setup for about two weeks and didn't notice any improvement of my usual V/U/800 stuff. Speaking of 800, I hear systems two counties away in any direction, so it's not that bad...and I am on average flat ground here in SE FL. Antenna is only about 30' off the ground.

Well, I think we beat this to death. The OP must be overwhelmed, and this goes way beyond Uniden Technical Support! A great discussion, none the less. I highly recommend reading those Antenna Handbooks. There is a wealth of information about all types of antennas. If only I had room for some rombic antennas! Talk about GAIN.

Phil

 

[SOFA_KING]

A 5/8 wave VHF dipole will have 3 dB of gain. That is a given. That is the primary element design of the ST-2 not considering any other elements.

So, adding two more quarter wave dipoles to that should be close to another 3 dB of gain. Again, that is looking at it as a VHF antenna. Other bands will vary, but I believe your gain figures are low simply because there is much more than a 1/2 wave dipole in the design.

I'm focusing on VHF because that is where most of my testing was done.

What ST-2 clones are there? I've never seen any.

Dude, give it up. You are way off. Not even close. You are making a total fool of yourself.

I guess you don't mind doing that, but you have to know some people aren't buying your BS. You might be able to fool the unsuspecting newbie hobbyist, but no one else. :roll:

Phil

 

[mikewazowski]

I think the OP's post has been answered and now this thread only serves as a platform for some people to argue.

Closed.