Outdoor antenna here or here?

[Gsquared]

So I have my BCD436HP up and running and want to install and antenna outside the house. I want it at the highest point which is the top of the chimney but the wife doesn't want "some weird alien caller" as she says sitting on top of the house for the neighbors to complain about (which they wouldn't). Anyway, I have two options, ignore her complaining and put it on the chimney or, on the top of the screen room somewhere. I'm guessing I'll get some signal improvement even if I install one on screen room roof versus the radio (w/Diamond RH77CA antenna) just sitting on my computer desk.

I'll probably go with the Tram 1410 25Mhz-1300Mhz since I follow systems from the 150Mhz through 800Mhz range. Below is the back of the house to get a visual on the screen room and chimney. The antenna farm (Sharp's Ridge) mentioned in the photo has antennas that range between 1000'-1400' tall and do carry some of my feeds but, many of the other repeaters in my area are in every different direction so it's not just that one zone. Plus, I have ridges pretty much surrounding my neighborhood that block all other repeaters besides the one on top of Sharp's Ridge.

The antenna on top of the chimney would have partial LoS to the tops of those antennas but not from the height of the screen room roof. Either way, I'm just looking to get a bit more reach out of some of my feeds but am not looking for incredible gains for everything I listen to.

 

[chief21]

Is it possible to erect a mast-mounted antenna somewhere on the back of the house so that the antenna could just "see" over the roof ridge, but would not be as noticeable from the front of the property? That might be more acceptable to the Mrs. and would get the antenna much higher than the screen room.

 

[Gsquared]

Is it possible to erect a mast-mounted antenna somewhere on the back of the house so that the antenna could just "see" over the roof ridge, but would not be as noticeable from the front of the property? That might be more acceptable to the Mrs. and would get the antenna much higher than the screen room.

Good idea. Wonder if that would mean its own pole buried in the ground or somehow connected to the gutters or something. I'm guessing the pole would really be the only way because of the design of the Tram antenna.

 

[mmckenna]

Where is your electric meter?
You need to consider grounding for safety. Your antenna mast and coax need to be properly grounded. You'll make life easier if you install it where you have a direct run down to the ground rod that should be under the meter. If not, you'll need to add a ground rod under your antenna and bond that rod to the existing rod.

Lightning is no joke, and while you may get away ignoring your wife, I promise you she will never let you live it down if your antenna lets lightning into her home.

Remember that most public safety radio systems are designed for some level of hand held radio coverage. Getting an antenna outside your home will result in drastic improvements and put you way ahead of most scanner hobbyists. Yes, higher is better, but keeping the wife happy is more important.

 

[chief21]

Yes, higher is better, but keeping the wife happy is more important.

As they say... "Happy wife; Happy life"

 

[Gsquared]

Where is your electric meter?
You need to consider grounding for safety. Your antenna mast and coax need to be properly grounded. You'll make life easier if you install it where you have a direct run down to the ground rod that should be under the meter. If not, you'll need to add a ground rod under your antenna and bond that rod to the existing rod.

Lightning is no joke, and while you may get away ignoring your wife, I promise you she will never let you live it down if your antenna lets lightning into her home.

I'm not sure I was supposed to laugh at your reply but I did. Anyway, you probably just saved my life in two ways because if Mother Nature attempted to strike me down and I miraculously survived, I'm certain the wife would have taken a shot at it.

So as far as grounding, the backyard couldn't be any further from my electric meter which in original photo, is to the far right behind the wood fence. It's mounted in between the double garage doors with the ground wire buried in the concrete driveway. But, I may be in luck if I can use the gas meter's grounding (see below).

 

[dave3825]

I have seen a lot, but that just looks scary.

 

[Gsquared]

That was probably done on a Friday at 4:59p. The loop around the tubing is very tight and the wire going into the ground doesn't budge. I guess me and the original owner of the house never bothered to cut off the extra. The brown color is just old clay splash up before we had rocks there. Or do you mean to rust also? Ain't much I can do about that except to get it replaced. The house was built in 1996 so...

 

[dave3825]

The loop around the tubing is very tight

I would check with your gas company to see if its ok to ground an antenna to the pipe.

Safety Alert: Do Not Ground Electrical Equipment to Natural Gas Equipment | SDGE | San Diego Gas & Electric - News Center

www.sdgenews.com

In any event, if that were my set up, I would clean the pipe and lock one of these on.

 

[ka3aaa]

normally buried gas lines are plastic or non metallic materials that are required by code to have a wire attached to them so a utility company can trace them. the wire on the gas line is exactly that and nothing else.

secondly i would install a second 10' copper ground rod either buried horizontal or vertical close to where you are going to mount the antenna and use that for the antenna ground.

 

[mmckenna]

Yeah, just no.

Others are correct. That green ground wire wrapped around the pipe is only for attaching a cable/pipe locating device. It's not a ground connection. The gas main coming up to your house is probably a non-conductive pipe, thus the need for a conductor for the locator.

The ground connection coming off the pipe before it enters the home:
-It's probably grounding the pipe to your home electrical ground, but I would not rely on it being properly bonded to the electric ground. It may just go to rebar in the foundation.
-You don't want to use a gas pipe as the ground connection. That pretty much guarantees that a lightning strike will result in a fire.
-That rusty pipe probably isn't a good ground connection, anyway. Rusty joints give you all kinds of problems.

I've never been to Knoxville, but I'm guessing you get just a bit of lightning in that neck of the woods. You really need to take the grounding thing seriously. Sticking an antenna up in the air is going to be asking for issues. Remember: a direct lightning strike isn't your only concern. Even a nearby strike and induce enough energy into the coaxial cable to do a whole lot of damage.
Be wary of anyone who tells you not to ground your antenna because it will "attract lightning".
National Electric Code has guidance on this for a very good reason. It's about safety, and if you are concerned about what you wife is going to say/do, just wait until she figures out what'll happen if lightning finds your antenna and you didn't follow code. Wives become instant building inspectors with a lot more disciplinary authority.

Grounding per the NEC will get you going in the right direction. Disclaimer: You should consult with an electrician, and your wife. If your wife is an electrician, you're all set….

Here's a pretty good explanation:

https://www.mikeholt.com/instructor2/img/product/pdf/17LED-1498-sample.pdf

Not trying to discourage you, just trying to help you stay on the good side of your wife. Much safer that way, as if she's anything like my wife, she'll do a lot more damage than a lightning strike will.

Getting your antenna outside will drastically improve your radios performance. It really is worth the effort to do this. We just want to see you do it safely.

 

[Gsquared]

Thanks for the thorough explanation. At the risk of getting flamed for asking a question that's probably been asked a thousand times, I took the chance and glad I did. I think I'll pass for now as it seems too much hassle (and $$) as a very casual listener.

 

[mmckenna]

Thanks for the thorough explanation. At the risk of getting flamed for asking a question that's probably been asked a thousand times, I took the chance and glad I did. I think I'll pass for now as it seems too much hassle (and $$) as a very casual listener.

Understood. It's a challenge to do that sort of install.
You might see improvements by moving your scanner around and see if it works better somewhere in your home.
Or, get an external antenna and just put it by an upstairs window.

 

[Ubbe]

I'll probably go with the Tram 1410 25Mhz-1300Mhz since I follow systems from the 150Mhz through 800Mhz range.

The dimensions for the Tram 1410 says that it covers from 88MHz and upwards. If you only need from 150MHz and up then cut all top horizontal and bottom vertical elements 60% shorter. You then will not receive FM broadcast with as strong signal that could overload a receiver and your 800MHz reception will also improve and the antenna will be smaller in size, not break of the elements as easy in heavy wind and if painted light grey will not be noticed so much.

/Ubbe

 

[W5lz]

I'm not sure I was supposed to laugh at your reply but I did. Anyway, you probably just saved my life in two ways because if Mother Nature attempted to strike me down and I miraculously survived, I'm certain the wife would have taken a shot at it.

So as far as grounding, the backyard couldn't be any further from my electric meter which in original photo, is to the far right behind the wood fence. It's mounted in between the double garage doors with the ground wire buried in the concrete driveway. But, I may be in luck if I can use the gas meter's grounding (see below).

View attachment 121387View attachment 121388View attachment 121389View attachment 121390

Do NOT use that gas meter or plumbing for grounding radio stuff! That would NOT be smart at all.

 

[Gsquared]

Do NOT use that gas meter or plumbing for grounding radio stuff! That would NOT be smart at all.

I found out in the RR forums, the one group I'm having issues with inside the house with Diamond whip antenna just has crappy signal for handhelds and that they're slowly switching over to TCAN P25 in the near future. That being said, all other groups I follow are crystal clear so I will not be perusing an antenna for outside.