Outdoor Antenna Recommendations

[CTWaters]

Hey all...

For those of you here in the Valley, what do you recommend for an outdoor antenna? I am in Glendale (about a mile from Westgate) and can pick up everything trunked in the North, South, and West Valley's. I also get quite a bit of FM/NFM with the stock rubber duckie antenna, but sure I can do better with the BCD436HP that I have.

I would like to pick up Mesa, Tempe, Gilbert, etc., which I currently can't do on either FM/NFM, or Trunked. Only exception is TOPAZ I can get over here for Fire Dispatch, and R/M Fire.

Thanks in advance!

 

[GlobalNorth]

Do you live in an HOA restricted community? If you do, you generally cannot have outdoor antennas, so you are either restricted to placing an outdoor antenna in an attic, buying an antenna and placing it in the living area of the home [some here have had good luck with taking a mobile vehicle antenna w/magnet mount and placing it on a large cookie sheet as a ground plane on top of a bookcase, or building an outdoor antenna out of wire/an old mobile antenna and hiding it in a tree/flag pole/or as part of your house. DX Engineering/Ham Radio Outlet have low visibility antenna wire for sale and water based latex house paint can be used to conceal shiny aluminium or stainless steel elements of manufactured antennas.

Make certain you have the range set to 25+miles in the scanner since you're near Westgate.

 

[CTWaters]

Do you live in an HOA restricted community? If you do, you generally cannot have outdoor antennas, so you are either restricted to placing an outdoor antenna in an attic, buying an antenna and placing it in the living area of the home [some here have had good luck with taking a mobile vehicle antenna w/magnet mount and placing it on a large cookie sheet as a ground plane on top of a bookcase, or building an outdoor antenna out of wire/an old mobile antenna and hiding it in a tree/flag pole/or as part of your house. DX Engineering/Ham Radio Outlet have low visibility antenna wire for sale and water based latex house paint can be used to conceal shiny aluminium or stainless steel elements of manufactured antennas.

Make certain you have the range set to 25+miles in the scanner since you're near Westgate.

Yes I am in an HOA area. I know that the one I am in, they focus on the front of the house, but don't really have an issue with anything behind the fence line. For instance... Everyone in my area who has DirecTV or Dish, all the antenna's are either on the rear of the house, or mounted on the cinderblock wall, behind the side fence, like mine is.

I believe I have my 436 set on 50 mile radius, which should cover from me to the East Valley no problem. I believe from my house, to downtown Mesa is 46 miles.

That's why I was thinking something sleek and something I could mount just on the eve level of the house.

Or, as you suggested, getting an outdoor antenna to sit here in the house, next to where I have the scanner at. There's a huge window about 15' away from me, so if that would help enhance the reception of the scanner, I would be okay with that as well.

 

[KOK5CY]

I agree with Global North . I would definitely try the cookie sheet 1st .

 

[Astrak]

Yes I am in an HOA area. I know that the one I am in, they focus on the front of the house, but don't really have an issue with anything behind the fence line. For instance... Everyone in my area who has DirecTV or Dish, all the antenna's are either on the rear of the house, or mounted on the cinderblock wall, behind the side fence, like mine is.

I believe I have my 436 set on 50 mile radius, which should cover from me to the East Valley no problem. I believe from my house, to downtown Mesa is 46 miles.

That's why I was thinking something sleek and something I could mount just on the eve level of the house.

Or, as you suggested, getting an outdoor antenna to sit here in the house, next to where I have the scanner at. There's a huge window about 15' away from me, so if that would help enhance the reception of the scanner, I would be okay with that as well.

The 50 mile radius setting just tells the scanner to scan what's in its database within 50 miles of a zip code you set, it doesn't mean it will receive anything within 50 miles. No matter what antenna you use I doubt the 436 will pick up any trunking systems from the east valley, you will need a Unication or SDS series scanner to do that. You would need to get an antenna above the roof line of your house and houses around you for analog VHF/UHF stuff.

 

[KB7MIB]

With a rooftop antenna, you should have a decent chance of receiving at least RWC Simulcast H (Scottsdale), and *maybe* Simulcast F (Tempe). I'm doubtful of you being able to receive Simulcast C (Chandler/Maricopa), or the TOPAZ RWC Mesa Simulcast. However, only by installing an antenna will you know for sure, unless someone in the same general area has first hand experience.
I'm a few miles north of you, but I don't have an outdoor antenna.

John
Peoria

 

[Ubbe]

The 50 mile radius setting just tells the scanner to scan what's in its database within 50 miles of a zip code you set, it doesn't mean it will receive anything within 50 miles.

A 50 mile setting means that it will add that to the miles set for the site in the database. Many of the sites are set to 55 miles in the database and that are based on the sites antenna output power and hight above average ground level. It would then scan sites out to 105 miles.

Departments also has a range set to them, that would actually work better if that was a separate range setting, that doesn't affect scan rate but could exclude TG's you would like to monitor, or include those that are not valid for the local area, depending of your purpose with the scanning, but TG's never adds any system load and are easy to avoid.

/Ubbe

 

[prcguy]

Does anyone in the HOA area have a terrestrial TV antenna? If so and if you don't why not put up a Discone next to or on top of your satellite antenna? A Discone is a viable TV antenna if anyone questions it.

Yes I am in an HOA area. I know that the one I am in, they focus on the front of the house, but don't really have an issue with anything behind the fence line. For instance... Everyone in my area who has DirecTV or Dish, all the antenna's are either on the rear of the house, or mounted on the cinderblock wall, behind the side fence, like mine is.

I believe I have my 436 set on 50 mile radius, which should cover from me to the East Valley no problem. I believe from my house, to downtown Mesa is 46 miles.

That's why I was thinking something sleek and something I could mount just on the eve level of the house.

Or, as you suggested, getting an outdoor antenna to sit here in the house, next to where I have the scanner at. There's a huge window about 15' away from me, so if that would help enhance the reception of the scanner, I would be okay with that as well.

 

[p19997]

I did a signal strength calculation for Chandler PD's site at 911 S Hamilton St. to the intersection of Northern and 59th Ave. I think that is in Glendale. That's 27 miles as the crow files. The Hamilton site is 80 Watts. Assuming that this is the Effective Radiated Power Level, that the frequency is 771 MHz, that the antenna is omni-directional, and that there are no tall buildings in the path of the signal, the received signal strength should be -104 dBm.

On paper, this looks like you could receive that chandler site on a Uniden SDS 100 or 200. This supposes that the antenna is high enough to get line of sight. If your outdoor antenna has gain, that would help. If their antenna is not omni-directional and does not radiate to the NW, you won't be able to receive it.

I don't know where the Glendale boundaries lie. If it goes south enough and you live in that area, the South Mountains might block the signal.

 

[CTWaters]

The 50 mile radius setting just tells the scanner to scan what's in its database within 50 miles of a zip code you set, it doesn't mean it will receive anything within 50 miles. No matter what antenna you use I doubt the 436 will pick up any trunking systems from the east valley, you will need a Unication or SDS series scanner to do that. You would need to get an antenna above the roof line of your house and houses around you for analog VHF/UHF stuff.

I was thinking at picking up the SDS200, and keeping the 436 for when I come to the girlfriends house in North Phoenix (Norterra area / I-17 & Jomax).

I know here, I pick up RWC trunking a bit better than I do at my house, and some of the R/M Analog's seem to come in a bit better here, which is weird.

I will have to compare the differences between the 436/536 & the 100/200, and see what makes them better for picking up the other frequencies. Which brings me back to needing an external antenna for the 200 anyways, unless the telescoping antenna you think would do the trick, with the scanner sitting like 3' from a West facing window.

 

[CTWaters]

Does anyone in the HOA area have a terrestrial TV antenna? If so and if you don't why not put up a Discone next to or on top of your satellite antenna? A Discone is a viable TV antenna if anyone questions it.

I don't think anyone in my area has an OTA Antenna. I did drive around when I left yesterday, and there's a couple 2 story houses that actually have their Sat Dish on the front of the house, instead of the fence line. So I will look a bit more when I return Monday.

I also was thinking that I have a small, thin tree on the West Side of my house, right along the Cinder Block Fence line, so I could always mount it just behind that tree, and that would keep it concealed. My neighbor wouldn't care, as it wouldn't be anywhere in their plain site, unless they were taking out their garbage cans on Sunday. LOL

 

[CTWaters]

I did a signal strength calculation for Chandler PD's site at 911 S Hamilton St. to the intersection of Northern and 59th Ave. I think that is in Glendale. That's 27 miles as the crow files. The Hamilton site is 80 Watts. Assuming that this is the Effective Radiated Power Level, that the frequency is 771 MHz, that the antenna is omni-directional, and that there are no tall buildings in the path of the signal, the received signal strength should be -104 dBm.

On paper, this looks like you could receive that chandler site on a Uniden SDS 100 or 200. This supposes that the antenna is high enough to get line of sight. If your outdoor antenna has gain, that would help. If their antenna is not omni-directional and does not radiate to the NW, you won't be able to receive it.

I don't know where the Glendale boundaries lie. If it goes south enough and you live in that area, the South Mountains might block the signal.

Thanks for that info. The Glendale boundary is extremely WeIrD, as you can see from the attached screenshot. I am pretty much right where the pin drop is for Westgate. I will have to see what makes the receive capabilities that much different on the 100/200 vs. the 436. I would be curious to see if the 200 would receive more / better with even just the OOB Telescopic antenna.

 

[prcguy]

As I said before, a Discone antenna is a viable TV receive antenna. You have a right to install one in your HOA and they cannot prevent you from doing so. They may be able to dictate where on the property it can go for ascetic reasons. You can install the Discone, run RG-6 to a 4 way amplified TV splitter then to your TV and scanner. You can justify an omni directional TV antenna because in Glendale you have TV stations coming from different directions.

Here is one of many versions of a law that protects you and the fourth example is an outdoor TV antenna and I believe there are more laws in the works to protect you. This info is from Christopher R. Moore, Esq.

What is the OTARD Rule?

In 1996, acting under regulatory authority delegated by Congress in the Telecommunications Act, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) issued its rule on Over-the-Air Reception Devices Rule, 47 C.F.R. §1.4000 (the “OTARD Rule”).

The OTARD Rule protects consumer access to video programming by prohibiting restrictions on the installation, maintenance, or use of certain reception devices.

Under the rule, condominium, homeowners’ associations, and landlords cannot unreasonably restrict the use of antennas designed to receive wireless cable or local television broadcasts or satellite dishes not exceeding one meter in diameter.

What Type of Antennas Are Covered Under The OTARD Rule?

Under the OTARD Rule 47 CFR § 1.4000(a)(1), the following satellite antennas are covered:

• Direct broadcast satellite antennas that are one meter or less in diameter or any size in Alaska;
• Antennas that are one meter or less in diameter or diagonal measurement and are designed to receive or transmit video programming services through multipoint distribution services, including multichannel multipoint distribution services, instructional television fixed services, and local multipoint distribution services; and
• Antennas designed to receive television broadcast signals.
• Antennas used to receive fixed wireless or broadband Internet signals.

Furthermore, under the OTARD Rule, the term “fixed wireless signals” means “any commercial non-broadcast communications signals transmitted via wireless technology to and/or from a fixed customer location. Fixed wireless signals do not include, among other things, AM radio, FM radio, amateur (‘‘HAM’’) radio, CB radio, and Digital Audio Radio Service (DARS) signals.“ See 47 C.F.R. § 1.4000(a)(2).

I don't think anyone in my area has an OTA Antenna. I did drive around when I left yesterday, and there's a couple 2 story houses that actually have their Sat Dish on the front of the house, instead of the fence line. So I will look a bit more when I return Monday.

I also was thinking that I have a small, thin tree on the West Side of my house, right along the Cinder Block Fence line, so I could always mount it just behind that tree, and that would keep it concealed. My neighbor wouldn't care, as it wouldn't be anywhere in their plain site, unless they were taking out their garbage cans on Sunday. LOL

 

[p19997]

I am pretty much right where the pin drop is for Westgate.

To 91st Ave and Bethany Home, it is 29.1 miles, which gives an estimated Receive Signal Strength of -105 dBm. However, the maps shows that the line of sight goes through the area just south of Rustler's Rooste, which is on a hill. Hard to tell if the signal would get blocked by what's there. Of course, this is still assuming that their antenna is omni, which it may not be. If you get an outdoor antenna, please update this thread with what you were able to get.

 

[CTWaters]

As I said before, a Discone antenna is a viable TV receive antenna. You have a right to install one in your HOA and they cannot prevent you from doing so. They may be able to dictate where on the property it can go for ascetic reasons. You can install the Discone, run RG-6 to a 4 way amplified TV splitter then to your TV and scanner. You can justify an omni directional TV antenna because in Glendale you have TV stations coming from different directions.

Thank you for that, sir. I didn't realize that a scanner antenna would fall in to this category, but it does make sense. There's a lot of "overlapping" frequencies that the antenna's cover.

When I get back from vacation this weekend, I wills start looking in to a viable antenna to throw up on the side of the house.

 

[CTWaters]

To 91st Ave and Bethany Home, it is 29.1 miles, which gives an estimated Receive Signal Strength of -105 dBm. However, the maps shows that the line of sight goes through the area just south of Rustler's Rooste, which is on a hill. Hard to tell if the signal would get blocked by what's there. Of course, this is still assuming that their antenna is omni, which it may not be. If you get an outdoor antenna, please update this thread with what you were able to get.

I shall do, sir. I know RR yeah, is on a hill right down the street from my companies Data Center. Although I have never been there, I don't think there is anything around it, and it isn't "elevated" on the hill, just sits right at the edge.

I definitely will update. I will throw up an external antenna and use with my 436, then when I get either the 100 or 200, I will update with the differences on frequencies as well.

 

[prcguy]

A Discone is kind of a special case because its advertised as covering all possible TV frequencies. If that's my choice for a TV antenna I will fight the HOA to the death over it! Maybe accuse them of being antenna raciest because my antenna doesn't look like theirs. Make sure you have provisions to actually feed your TV so you can show them if someone complains.

Thank you for that, sir. I didn't realize that a scanner antenna would fall in to this category, but it does make sense. There's a lot of "overlapping" frequencies that the antenna's cover.

When I get back from vacation this weekend, I wills start looking in to a viable antenna to throw up on the side of the house.

 

[CTWaters]

Good evening everyone.

Just wanted to post an update here, since it has been a week or so...

I ended up going to get a Hustler Discone antenna. I had it in the house by the window (pointing West), and it got a bit better in receive on my BCD436HP, but still had issues with the Simulcast cutting out, etc. Seems after reading up on it, that is an issue with the BCDx36HP Radios.

So I bit the bullet, and went back to HRO and got the SDS200. The telescopic antenna did quite better with receive than even the Discone on the 436. I hooked up the Discone to the SDS, and man... Talk about pulling in stuff in Zipcode mode that I never received with the 436.

I currently have the Hustler on about a 6 foot fence post in the ground which is up against the cinder block wall. Anything digital / Simulcast comes in 5x5, and (most) analog comes in 5x5 until my A/C unit kicks on, then goes to about 2.5x5. Makes sense, since the Discone is only about 3 feet away from the Compressor. I even saw Tempe PD flash really quick and get one dispatch earlier today. I still don't get active East Valley activity, with the exception of Rural Metro / Mesa Fire Dispatch. I even pull in the Analog Phoenix Fire A-Deck channels, where I couldn't get them with the 436, even with the Discone. Unfortunately, the P25 A-Deck channel's are encrypted, so I gotta stick with Analog, but that's fine. It is 5x5.

I plan on putting it up on the West x S/W corner of my roof flashing in the next few days. I know it's the opposite way of the East Valley, but if I put it on that side of my house, I would need 200-300' of coax in order to get to where the scanner is located.

I will keep folks updated.

 

[KB7MIB]

Phoenix FD most likely patches the analog conventional VHF-High A-deck channels to the RWC so that units responding from a ways off can monitor the fireground traffic while enroute.

It's unfortunate that they chose to encrypt those patches, rather than leave them open. I don't know what their reasoning is behind that decision.

John
Peoria

 

[p19997]

I still don't get active East Valley activity, with the exception of Rural Metro / Mesa Fire Dispatch.

Thanks for the update. Depending on which obstacles might be in the path to transmitters, you may be able to receive more by getting your antenna higher off the ground.