P25 adjustment mode

[kc5igh]

Hello, again.

Let me try asking my earlier question a little differently:

Has anyone ever been able to adjust/optimize P25 reception on their BCD325P2 by following the instructions on pages 83 and 84 of the Uniden owner's manual?

I'm hoping I'm overlooking something simple and that my problem is a matter of pilot error on my part (that's often the case), but any help will be deeply appreciated.

Thanks!

-Johnnie

 

[Air490]

Hi Johnnie,
I have done it and had no problem. Tell me where you get to and we can try and work it out.

 

[kc5igh]

Hello, Air490. Thanks for responding!

To begin with, I've enabled the "hidden" P25 setting described on page 39 in the owner's manual. Sure enough, "P25 Threshold" appears as an option under "Settings." When I press "E/yes," my menu options become "Auto" and the manual level settings 5 through 13 described in the instructions. Setting the scanner at level 8 improves my reception of a local P25 trunked radio system, but the radio will not retain the manual setting once I've turned it off and back on again. It always reverts to "Auto." By the way, step 2 in these instructions is confusing in that you're instructed to press "E/yes" after you've scrolled to 'Auto', 'Level 5-13.' Which do you press?

I've then attempted to make the P25 adjustment described on pages 83 and 84 of the manual. No matter what I do, "P25 Threshold Mode" does not appear as a site option for that trunked radio site, and I therefore do not have the option of setting it to manual as described in the instructions. I've tried enabling the "hidden" setting mentioned above on page 39 and leaving the radio in either Auto mode or manual level 8, but neither step will result in the "P25 Threshold Mode" option appearing under the site options menu item.

Pressing Vol, then Func, then Vol enables the threshold display, but the radio will only self-adjust in auto mode or be locked into manual level 8 if that's where I left the "hidden" setting referenced on page 39. Pressing Func will not allow me to scroll through different threshold levels as described on page 84.

I've been able to accomplish all this on my 436, so I understand what I'm trying to do to optimize my reception of the same system on the 325, but it doesn't work.

Ultimately, all I want to do is have threshold level 8 be the "starting point for the auto-tuning function for subsequent transmission" as described on page 84. At present, the starting point appears to be level 10. At that level, I'm missing many of the transmissions and responses on the 325 that I receive on my 396 and my PSR-800. The signals are slightly clearer at auto levels 9 and 10, but I'm willing to,sacrifice some of the clarity for the increased sensitivity that I find at level 8.

For what it's worth, I've updated the firmware to the latest version, and I'm using ARC-XL software. Tonight, when I have more time, I'm planning to hook the 325 to the ARC software again to see if there's a P25 adjustment option in there somewhere.

Thanks for any help you can offer!

-Johnnie

 

[RoninJoliet]

I don't believe there is a "manual", its ONLY "AUTO" then you choose settings between 5-13, ....Here in IL the Starcom system decodes best on a setting of "8"....

 

[kc5igh]

Hello, Ronin Joliet.

I believe you're right. As best I can determine, the P25 adjustment directions in the BCD325P2 owner's manual were cut and pasted in from the BCD436HP manual.

Tell me, does your 325 keep its manual threshold level 8 setting after you've turned the radio off and then on again? I have to key up the "hidden" threshold level menu item every time I turn the radio back on.

Thanks for your input.

-Johnnie

 

[Voyager]

The 325P2 manual "source" was most certainly a BCD396XT manual, not a BCD436HP manual. So, while the reply is essentially correct that it may be a copy-n-paste, it would not be from the 436 which is substantially different while the 396XT is virtually identical minus the alert light and charging circuit.

 

[kc5igh]

Hello, Voyager!

I didn't mean to imply that the entire BCD325P2 owner's manual was cut and pasted from the 436 manual.

I was referring only to the P25 adjustment instructions on pages 83 and 84 of the 325 manual.

To the best of my knowledge, the 396XT (upon which the 325 is based?) never allowed for anything but "Auto" adjustments to improve P25 reception. The 436 does enable user-set manual threshold level settings to be the starting point for auto adjustments, as (erroneously?) described in the 325 manual.

When I saw those instructions, my hopes were high that I'd be able to set my 325 at level 8 the way I did my 436. Oh well. . .

Hope you're doing well!

-Johnnie

 

[Air490]

I had a play with mine tonight. As stated there is no site adjustment option. I also find that once the unit is turned off and back on it returns to Auto threshold adjustment. I would be happier if it would hold the manual value.

 

[kc5igh]

Thanks for looking into this, Air490.

Your observations confirm my experiences, and I agree it would have been nice to have been able to retain the manual threshold setting.

 

[RoninJoliet]

So we have determined its always in "Auto" because there is no "manual", but, if you set the threshold # say at "8" what does it revert back to or does it stay at "8".when you turn it back on...The manual says you can set it between 5-13 but its for all systems in the scanner.....

 

[kc5igh]

Hello, RoninJoliet.

If you set the threshold level manually at 8 (or whatever value you select between 5 and 13), the radio will always revert to the "Auto" setting after it's been turned off.

In my case, the auto-tuning function hovers around 10 and 11 when I'm monitoring a nearby P25 trunked radio system. The radio indicates that the error rate is very low (close to zero most of the time) for that system at those levels, but it's missing some of the transmissions that my other radios (including my beloved old 396XT) are receiving. My preference would be to manually set the P25 threshold level at 8 and leave it there. The error rates go up slightly at that level, but I'm willing to sacrifice a reasonable degree of audio quality in order to lower the threshold and let the radio try to decode less-than-optimum signals.

Having said all this, I must say that my 325 outperforms my 436 in this listening environment (rural, mountainous), even at it's level 10-11 auto-tuning settings. I've been very pleased with the 325's digital (P25 phase 1) audio quality (clarity, full-toned, natural-sounding voice signals).

The only audio-quality drawback I've encountered so far with the 325 is the big difference in volume between P25 signals and those from conventional systems. The P25 signals on essentially all my digital-capable scanners are louder (and clearer) than the conventional signals each radio receives, but the difference in volume between the two modes is much more pronounced in my 325 than it is on any of the others.

I also like the size and appearance (subjective, I know) of the 325.

Now if I could build a radio with all the 436's features, the 396XT's rf performance (fantastic balance of sensitivity/selectivity in my listening environment), and the 325's size, I'd be in monitoring heaven.

Thanks.

-Johnnie

 

[RoninJoliet]

I have thoughts of buying a 325P2, so your saying the P25 audio is clear but "much" louder than conventional freqys....Also it seems you can set auto decode at "8" but it still reverts to 10-12.....On the IL-Starcom 700 digital system my 396xt is still "auto' but stays at "8' and decodes perfect.....

 

[DaveIN]

I believe the default for the analog and digital voice automatic gain control is set to on, but don't forget you can also offset the volume and accommodate the loud voice in some cases.

From the BCD396XT manual: "To toggle the volume offset for a conventional channel Hold on the channel and press Func then 5(lvl). Press Hold to resume."

 

[Voyager]

so your saying the P25 audio is clear but "much" louder than conventional freqys

This can happen if the conventional frequencies are using NFM but the scanner is programmed for FM.

 

[Air490]

The P25 decode threshold can be set manually to 8, but it will default back to Auto when the scanner is turned off.

The default auto level seems to be 9 or 10. I find that this is too high on the NSW GRN P25 system, with 8 providing the best decode. I'm not sure if that helps for the IL-Starcom system.

 

[kc5igh]

This can happen if the conventional frequencies are using NFM but the scanner is programmed for FM.

I think you're right, Voyager, but I've got all the analog channels set for NFM, and the volume difference is also very pronounced with aircraft signals in AM.

This happens with all my digital scanners, but the difference between digital and conventional volume seems a little greater with my 325. It's just enough to be a little annoying when "normal" volume levels on digital produce whispers on analog, and turning up the volume on analog causes digital signals to really get loud.

 

[kc5igh]

I believe the default for the analog and digital voice automatic gain control is set to on, but don't forget you can also offset the volume and accommodate the loud voice in some cases.

From the BCD396XT manual: "To toggle the volume offset for a conventional channel Hold on the channel and press Func then 5(lvl). Press Hold to resume."

I need to explore the channel volume offset function a little more, but at first glance it looks as though I'd have to turn up the setting for every individual analog channel and/or turn down the setting for every digital channel.

 

[kc5igh]

The P25 decode threshold can be set manually to 8, but it will default back to Auto when the scanner is turned off.

The default auto level seems to be 9 or 10. I find that this is too high on the NSW GRN P25 system, with 8 providing the best decode. I'm not sure if that helps for the IL-Starcom system.

I'm curious to see if the default auto level varies from system to system.

 

[RoninJoliet]

Thanks to every one for the info on this scanner , it seems like there P25 adjustments are some what useless like the original firmware that my 396xt has but it does work fine here on the IL-Digital Starcom usually staying at decode of "8"....Why do they Uniden sell the scanner with a adjusment that does nothing....My 996xt has the latest firm ware with P25 adjust and level which allows you to use "auto" but holds around 7-8....Adjustments seem to be radio system wide not individual....You would think by now they would produce the 325P2 with that better firmware.....As for the audio digital vs conventional i have made many adjustments to the "volume increase menu" for some conventional whispering freqys and it has helped....Wonder if they will have a firmware change when Upman reads that some Digital P25 systems need better decoding thru menu adjustments...Im still not sure i should spend 400.00 bucks , the IL-Starcom has Phase II capabilitys but are not in use yet......

 

[kc5igh]

A firmware update to accommodate manually set auto-tuning levels would be great!

A firmware update finally got the 436 to work in auto-tuning mode, so I suspect Uniden could make it happen for the 325.