P25, AES, Private Mode and Sq Mode…

[BMDaug]

Ok, so I’m missing something and would greatly appreciate some guidance! I have keys loaded to all radios. The XG100P hears a P7100 encrypted call great, shows key number, group name and identifies unit. Problem is, P7100 receives, but does not open squelch for the XG100P while private mode (on 7100) is enabled, unless I

A) set the Sq mode to MON in P25 Conventional Channel Settings (in 7100 personality) OR

B) switch out of private mode via 7100 menu…

Doing either of these things causes the 7100 to open squelch and receive the encrypted call.

The 7100 recognizes that the XG100P is transmitting encrypted (key icon appears on receive even when private mode is disabled) and radios checks are successful both in private mode when Sq Mode is set to MON, AND when private mode is disabled. I don’t understand why this is necessary and I’d prefer not to have the 7100 ignore the NAC, TG, and Unit ID by setting Sq Mode to MON.

I have a basic group set set up, and an iCall set set up with unit IDs of other radios entered. I am operating the 7100 on the system level. Do I need to be on the group level when monitoring? I’m so close, but I feel like setting Sq Mode to MON is a bandaid covering up improper setup on my part… Please help.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[BMDaug]

Man… I’m beginning to think that the P7100 just won’t function in this way in simplex… I’ve now set up more extensive talk groups, assigned keys to each group, fully defined the iCall set etc. and I still can’t hear the 100P unless the Sq Mode is set to MON, which ignores basically everything about the NAC, Group, and Unit ID. I’ve tried operating on talkaround and everything else I can think of! What’s weird is that the 100P is set up in exactly the same way and it hears the P7100 just fine with Sq Mode set to NORM.

Any ideas?

-B

 

[rescue161]

I am able to talk AES encrypted between XG100Ps/XG100Ms and P7100s/p7200s/P7300s/M7300s in trunked and simplex modes. It has to be something in your personality.

 

[BMDaug]

I am able to talk AES encrypted between XG100Ps/XG100Ms and P7100s/p7200s/P7300s/M7300s in trunked and simplex modes. It has to be something in your personality.

Hmmm… So you can leave the 7100 in private mode all of the time, have Sq Mode set to NORM, and it works? This is great news because that’s what I want to do, but I gotta figure this out!

The issue is t the encryption directly because when not in private mode, the radio receives encrypted with Sq Mode set to NORM, but with private mode enabled, the 7100 receives (green light and antenna icon illuminate), but nothing is heard… :-(

Thanks for confirming that it should be working.
-B

 

[rescue161]

I can't say off the top of my how they are programmed, but I do know I can leave it in private mode or in the clear and it works both ways rx and tx.

 

[rescue161]

I'll have to look at the pers files later as I don't have access to them right now.

 

[BMDaug]

I'll have to look at the pers files later as I don't have access to them right now.

Thank you so much!

-Brian

 

[rjschilder]

I've not had any issues with AES comms with P25C or P25T between any of the Harris/MACom radios. If it's a squelch thing, double check that your TX/RX NAC is correct in both radios (possible typo?), and that you're Voice Mode is P25, BandWidth is C4FM. Also, check your system to ensure the correct encryption mode is selected.

If you strapped the key via a talkgroup, make sure both radios are using the same TGID, and the same KID.

 

[TDR-94]

You have the groupset, you created for your P25 conventional channels, selected for all your P25 channels and the TGID as well? Correct?

 

[TDR-94]

Just to help narrow down the issue. Are all the P7100's unmuting with each other when set to Selective Sq in Private mode?

 

[BMDaug]

Thanks for all the help everyone! I do have the group set defined and the TGIDs selected.

The issue is definitely not on the 100P or 100M end. They play nice with each other and I’m on to testing just between the six 7100s, so the personalities are literally identical except for the unit id which is incremented using ‘override and program’ menu in RPM. I increment the P25C LID and also the Gstar ID just because… None if the P7100s will open unless set to MON or not in private mode. They all illuminate the green receive led and the antenna icon appears, but no sound is heard.

When I display keys using the radio menu, I see ‘SYS KEY NO KEY 4’ which is correct, but then I see ‘CH KEY PVT DIS’ which I think is because the radio is older and aegis or provoice would have a channel specific key… what’s weird is that even if I specify the system key as key one, the radio still lists the system key as four

I’m in the process of reducing the number of total keys and generally simplifying the personality a bit. Any suggestions are very welcome!

Thanks,
Brian

 

[TDR-94]

Do you have a RX CG tone set for the P25 conventional channels?

 

[BMDaug]

Do you have a RX CG tone set for the P25 conventional channels?

So I’ve been wondering about that too! I read that that should be set, but to what? I’m operating simplex and you can’t set a TX CG (the box is greyed on the 7100 and the 100P/M personalities…

-B

 

[TDR-94]

You can't set a TX CG tone for P25 modulation. It's only used for analog.The RX CG, when set for P25 modulation, just allows you to make sure the radio is only opening the squelch for P25 transmissions. I was just curious if you had that set.

Also, SYSTEM KEY NO KEY 4 would indicate that there is no key 4 assigned to that system.

 

[BMDaug]

You can't set a TX CG tone for P25 modulation. It's only used for analog.The RX CG, when set for P25 modulation, just allows you to make sure the radio is only opening the squelch for P25 transmissions. I was just curious if you had that set.

Also, SYSTEM KEY NO KEY 4 would indicate that there is no key 4 assigned to that system.

So the RX CG is blank. I don’t understand why it keeps referencing key 4. That’s really weird. There is no reference to key 4 anywhere in the personality now and I think that this is potentially my issue. I’ve simplified the personality so that everything uses the same key. I’ve simplified the key set so that there is only one key in the key set. No talk group or system uses key 4 at this point and so I’m totally baffled by it saying this. I can’t make sense of this error and it’s basically the only persistent problem I’ve encountered on this journey… do I need a key SET id of 4 loaded? I already had a key set with six keys… I tried using the 4th key in that key set as the system key but I got the same error.

I’ve also zeroized by holding the two small side buttons n the radio and started again. This BTW is a nightmare… all of the radios frequently fail to load keys immediately following a zeroize. I eventually got them all to load, but it took the better part of an hour. When they fail, they throw “fips err” on the screen. The radios aren’t feature encrypted for fips-140… Is the firmware somehow incorrect?

-B

 

[rescue161]

Under the P25 Conventional tab, under Private Options, do you have the correct System Default Key Number and the right algorithm set? Not sure about firmware, but if you want, you can send me the personality and tell me which key ID you want to use. BTW, my SQ Mode is set to NORM and I do not have an RX CG tone set. We did find that if we did not set an RX CG tone, that even though the radio had an RX NAC, it would unmute on any traffic, regardless of whether the right NAC was present, so all of our future personalities utilize an RX CG, even if the channel is P25 only. The NAC is set to the same NAC as all of the other radios.

 

[TDR-94]

Did you get around to checking if the P7100's communicate with each other in Private mode?

 

[BMDaug]

Did you get around to checking if the P7100's communicate with each other in Private mode?

Yes I checked. They do not. I have to set Sq Mode to MON, disable private, or hold the clr/mon button to receive. Really baffling. I really need that ‘SYS Key No Key 4’ error to go away. There is no reference to key 4 anywhere in the personality and it’s completely baffling. I don’t know why it’s looking for key 4 at all! But all six P7100 radios are acting the same way…

 

[BMDaug]

Under the P25 Conventional tab, under Private Options, do you have the correct System Default Key Number and the right algorithm set? Not sure about firmware, but if you want, you can send me the personality and tell me which key ID you want to use. BTW, my SQ Mode is set to NORM and I do not have an RX CG tone set. We did find that if we did not set an RX CG tone, that even though the radio had an RX NAC, it would unmute on any traffic, regardless of whether the right NAC was present, so all of our future personalities utilize an RX CG, even if the channel is P25 only. The NAC is set to the same NAC as all of the other radios.

What do you have your RX CG set to? I’m using P25C in simplex so I can’t set a TX CG… so I don’t think the squelch would ever open then. I’ve zeroized the radios. I’m creating a new key set with a key set ID of 4. The set will have one key. That key ID will also be 4… I just can’t figure out what the deal is here! I’m learning a lot and I’m glad about that, however nothing I’m learning is fixing this particular issue. Do the TX and RX NACs need to be different? Is there a place to define a key number other than in a system and in a group set?

Thanks everyone for working with me! I really appreciate you all.

-Brian

 

[TDR-94]

It might be easier to send your personality to someone to take a look at it. Just to rule out a personality configuration error.

rescue161 has already offered to take a look.