p25 repeater and dsd+

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ronenp

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stil no go

When running the setup program give same error it say it require dotnet 4.5 and that dotnet 4.5 is not supported in this OS

when running the repeater app alone it give error "the application improperly formatted contact the application vendor for assistance" when i press the more details this is what i get

PLATFORM VERSION INFO
Windows : 5.1.2600.196608 (Win32NT)
Common Language Runtime : 4.0.30319.1
System.Deployment.dll : 4.0.30319.1 (RTMRel.030319-0100)
clr.dll : 4.0.30319.1 (RTMRel.030319-0100)
dfdll.dll : 4.0.30319.1 (RTMRel.030319-0100)
dfshim.dll : 4.0.31106.0 (Main.031106-0000)

SOURCES
Deployment url : file:///C:/WinDigipeater1/Repeater.application

ERROR SUMMARY
Below is a summary of the errors, details of these errors are listed later in the log.
* Activation of C:\WinDigipeater1\Repeater.application resulted in exception. Following failure messages were detected:
+ Exception reading manifest from file:///C:/WinDigipeater1/Repeater.application: the manifest may not be valid or the file could not be opened.
+ Manifest XML signature is not valid.
+ SignatureDescription could not be created for the signature algorithm supplied.

COMPONENT STORE TRANSACTION FAILURE SUMMARY
No transaction error was detected.

WARNINGS
There were no warnings during this operation.

OPERATION PROGRESS STATUS
* [21.04.2014 18:48:14] : Activation of C:\WinDigipeater1\Repeater.application has started.

ERROR DETAILS
Following errors were detected during this operation.
* [21.04.2014 18:48:14] System.Deployment.Application.InvalidDeploymentException (ManifestParse)
- Exception reading manifest from file:///C:/WinDigipeater1/Repeater.application: the manifest may not be valid or the file could not be opened.
- Source: System.Deployment
- Stack trace:
at System.Deployment.Application.ManifestReader.FromDocument(String localPath, ManifestType manifestType, Uri sourceUri)
at System.Deployment.Application.DownloadManager.DownloadDeploymentManifestDirectBypass(SubscriptionStore subStore, Uri& sourceUri, TempFile& tempFile, SubscriptionState& subState, IDownloadNotification notification, DownloadOptions options, ServerInformation& serverInformation)
at System.Deployment.Application.DownloadManager.DownloadDeploymentManifestBypass(SubscriptionStore subStore, Uri& sourceUri, TempFile& tempFile, SubscriptionState& subState, IDownloadNotification notification, DownloadOptions options)
at System.Deployment.Application.ApplicationActivator.PerformDeploymentActivation(Uri activationUri, Boolean isShortcut, String textualSubId, String deploymentProviderUrlFromExtension, BrowserSettings browserSettings, String& errorPageUrl)
at System.Deployment.Application.ApplicationActivator.ActivateDeploymentWorker(Object state)
--- Inner Exception ---
System.Deployment.Application.InvalidDeploymentException (SignatureValidation)
- Manifest XML signature is not valid.
- Source: System.Deployment
- Stack trace:
at System.Deployment.Application.Manifest.AssemblyManifest.ValidateSignature(Stream s)
at System.Deployment.Application.ManifestReader.FromDocument(String localPath, ManifestType manifestType, Uri sourceUri)
--- Inner Exception ---
System.Security.Cryptography.CryptographicException
- SignatureDescription could not be created for the signature algorithm supplied.
- Source: System.Security
- Stack trace:
at System.Security.Cryptography.Xml.SignedXml.CheckSignedInfo(AsymmetricAlgorithm key)
at System.Security.Cryptography.Xml.SignedXml.CheckSignature(AsymmetricAlgorithm key)
at System.Security.Cryptography.Xml.SignedXml.CheckSignatureReturningKey(AsymmetricAlgorithm& signingKey)
at System.Deployment.Internal.CodeSigning.SignedCmiManifest.Verify(CmiManifestVerifyFlags verifyFlags)
at System.Deployment.Application.Manifest.AssemblyManifest.ValidateSignature(Stream s)

COMPONENT STORE TRANSACTION DETAILS
No transaction information is available.
 

rjschilder

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ok thanks for the info. I'll see if I can setup a win xp vm in the next day or so and give it a try. I'll keep you posted.

-Ryan KC9GMY
 

rjschilder

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DMR/MotoTRBO is possible...kind of

so, i had a chance to play around with my two new CS-700's (which are great!!!) and I got the app to "repeat" the DMR signal. It's not in any way compliant with the DMR standard, but it does show that an analog radio can transmit DMR. In real life, DMR waits for an acknowledgement from the repeater before the radio can transmit and have it's signal repeated. Unfortunately at this time, I don't think I can mimic that process. The only way you could make a "free" DMR/Mototrbo passive repeater out of this is one of the following scenarios:

1) Use two separate radio channels for TX and receive. Obviously this isn't feasible in real life.
2) Get the radio developers to have an option to disable waiting for the repeater acknowledgement.

Option two is the only realistic way this could work without being a pain. It would be neat though. I've thought about converting the input into UDP packets to "link" passive repeaters. Might make for an interesting project.

I'll post a youtube video tonight showing the makeshift DMR repeater.

-Ryan KC9GMY
 

wiredwrx

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Finally got a chance to play around with the app, but I ran into several problems.

First, the install went fine. Set everything up, and hit the Go button, and it immediately throws about 20 "Write to Null Handle" errors. I click through them, and all seems to be running. DSD opens in a window, but as soon as a signal comes in with the proper NAC, again it throws, and remains in a continuous loop, of "Write to Null Handle errors" including "Sync P25p1, NAC:XXX, LDU 1, then it repeats, alternating LDU1 and LDU2, and with each one, a tiny bit of audio comes out of the computer speakers.

I also noticed that the DSD box does not have any text in it, it is just a flashing cursor.

Any ideas?
 
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rjschilder

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hmm thats really odd. Does it do that when you run dsd+ by itself (without opening the app)? And you're using v 1.023 of DSDPlus right? Both dsd.exe and lame_enc.dll are in the root of C:\?

Let me know!
-Ryan KC9GMY
 

rjschilder

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I was able to reproduce the problem on a different windows 7 machine. i have VS on that machine too, so i'll try to debug it tonight.

--Ryan KC9GMY
 

rjschilder

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I semi narrowed down the problem. I'm not 100% sure why it's doing that. I got the error messages to go away and it looks like it's still reading the lines from dsd+, just not showing up. Wiredwrx: i'll try to get a test version for p25 out tonight. I'll probably just email you the 4shared link so you can give it a shot. I'll try to get it to display the output in dsd+, or add a text window with the lines read from the dsd+ output.

--Ryan KC9GMY
 

wiredwrx

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hmm thats really odd. Does it do that when you run dsd+ by itself (without opening the app)? And you're using v 1.023 of DSDPlus right? Both dsd.exe and lame_enc.dll are in the root of C:\?

Let me know!
-Ryan KC9GMY
I am trying to remote into my computer now to test, but my recollection is that it ran from the root of C, but definitely, it runs fine on my computer from a folder on the C drive. It is 1.023 of DSDPlus. Yes, both files are in the root of C. I am not sure if you are aware, but on Win 7, writing/copying files to the root of the drive is problematic. Can you change it to a look for DSD in a specific folder, say DSD on the C drive instead of root.

I will update if I can remote in and check things out.
 

wiredwrx

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I semi narrowed down the problem. I'm not 100% sure why it's doing that. I got the error messages to go away and it looks like it's still reading the lines from dsd+, just not showing up. Wiredwrx: i'll try to get a test version for p25 out tonight. I'll probably just email you the 4shared link so you can give it a shot. I'll try to get it to display the output in dsd+, or add a text window with the lines read from the dsd+ output.

--Ryan KC9GMY
Works for me. Thanks.

Did you find the logs I sent helpful? Do you need anything else?
 

rjschilder

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Yep the logs are helpful! Thanks for sending them. Check your email, I sent you a link to test out a new version. Uninstall the 0.6 version first. If it works i'll modify the rest of the code and publish a new version on here.

--Ryan KC9GMY
 

rjschilder

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I am trying to remote into my computer now to test, but my recollection is that it ran from the root of C, but definitely, it runs fine on my computer from a folder on the C drive. It is 1.023 of DSDPlus. Yes, both files are in the root of C. I am not sure if you are aware, but on Win 7, writing/copying files to the root of the drive is problematic. Can you change it to a look for DSD in a specific folder, say DSD on the C drive instead of root.

I will update if I can remote in and check things out.
Try out the version I sent you. I'll add something in the settings for a file path to dsd.exe, shouldn't be too hard. I was thinking it may have been a permissions issue or something too, but I couldn't point the finger at that for sure. I did move dsd.exe to a different folder on the other machine and I ran into the same issue at first. I believe I have it resolved now, and DSD+ doesn't show up anymore.

--Ryan KC9GMY
 

ronenp

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you wrote "DMR waits for an acknowledgement from the repeater before the radio can transmit and "
How the radio know that it work in Repeater mode rather then regular Simplex ? is there any setup in its programming that notify him that he work repeater mode ?

anyway i see a work arround
you can tell the radio to work no repeater and program tx-rx for the repeater and then i (assume) the radio will not need this acknowledge signal and it would allow it to be relayed with repeater based on your software
Hope I was right
Ronen - 4Z4ZQ
Ronen Pinchooks (4Z4ZQ) WebSite
....
 

rjschilder

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you wrote "DMR waits for an acknowledgement from the repeater before the radio can transmit and "
How the radio know that it work in Repeater mode rather then regular Simplex ? is there any setup in its programming that notify him that he work repeater mode ?

anyway i see a work arround
you can tell the radio to work no repeater and program tx-rx for the repeater and then i (assume) the radio will not need this acknowledge signal and it would allow it to be relayed with repeater based on your software
Hope I was right
Ronen - 4Z4ZQ
Ronen Pinchooks (4Z4ZQ) WebSite
....
Hi Ronen,

I actually reached out to the manufacturer of my radio and what you suggest (and what I hoped for) is not possible due to the DMR standard. As far as I understand it, this is what happens when you try to use a DMR repeater

1) You hit the PTT button on your radio
2) The radio sends out a packet of info requesting to use the repeater.
3) The radio listens for an acknowledgement from the repeater
3a) if the radio receives an acknowledgement, it will start transmitting your signal
3b) if the radio does not receive an acknowledgement, it will not transmit anything.

So basically, no acknowledgement, no transmit. It won't just blindly transmit on one frequency and listen on another like an analog radio. Too bad...would've been a nice "poor-man's" DMR repeater.

I was thinking maybe there was some way to "fake" an ACK, but I believe the radio switches between the tx/rx frequencies when it listens for an ACK. If the ACK is on the repeaters TX frequency there is a remote chance this is possible. If not, you'd need another radio to send the ACK. It *may* potentially be possible to record an ACK and replay it, but as of right now I have no idea what digital data is in the packet. I'm assuming it has the requesting radio ID in it somewhere, which would make it much more difficult to accomplish a replay since your radio ID could be anything.

--Ryan KC9GMY
 

ronenp

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Thank U for the brief explain
I have no Experience with these radios cause i dont have such radio although i can hear them with DSD

So what is the mechanism that tell the radio that it have to wait for that ack is it by looking on the TX-RX frequency and if they are not same then the radio know it must be working repeater mode ?
Pitty cant it work just split frequency like any regular radio ?
However there is a work around for that too
program in one memory the repeater input as simplex
and on the next memory the repeater output as simplex and when transmitting then transmit on the input and when receiving switch to the next channel ut is not as good as working real repeater but that te best can be done....

Ronen- 4Z4ZQ
Ronen Pinchooks (4Z4ZQ) WebSite
 

rjschilder

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Thank U for the brief explain
I have no Experience with these radios cause i dont have such radio although i can hear them with DSD

So what is the mechanism that tell the radio that it have to wait for that ack is it by looking on the TX-RX frequency and if they are not same then the radio know it must be working repeater mode ?
Pitty cant it work just split frequency like any regular radio ?
However there is a work around for that too
program in one memory the repeater input as simplex
and on the next memory the repeater output as simplex and when transmitting then transmit on the input and when receiving switch to the next channel ut is not as good as working real repeater but that te best can be done....

Ronen- 4Z4ZQ
Ronen Pinchooks (4Z4ZQ) WebSite
Yep you got it! It would be nice if it supported a split frequency simplex mode. Like you said, the only way to get it to work (as of right now) with DMR is to use two seperate simplex channels for TX and RX. I'm digging into the technical documentation to see if I can potentially replay an ack to trick the radio into transmitting. My initial guess is...no. But who knows, maybe i'll pull a rabbit out of my hat.

If anyone reading this has experience with DMR and has any suggestions please feel free to chime in!

On a side note, p25 isn't affected by this. It should work fine with split frequencies. Also, i'm cleaning up some code and releasing a v0.7 this weekend.

--Ryan KC9GMY
 

wiredwrx

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Cobbled together a circuit for keying

Did some internet searching, and came up with the following. This assumes that grounding something on the radio will cause it to transmit, which I am to understand, most radios do.
 

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rjschilder

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Thanks for the schematic! I'll be adding some features this weekend and trying to work out a few more ideas as well. I'm going to add the option of playing a custom wav file every XX minutes (repeater ID, custom message, whatever...). I'm also going to attempt to make a server/client module of the program that sends the audio data over UDP packets to "link" the repeater software. We'll see how that goes, never tried it before.

--Ryan KC9GMY
 
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