P25 Tier I and II...

rbritton1201

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The Highway Patrol in my State (Missouri) has a P25 system (MOSWIN), which I monitor on a Uniden BCD536HP scanner, or you can use the Uniden SDS100 or SDS200 to monitor P25 Tier I and II.

I've always wondered if my Digital Amateur Radios would be capable of receiving their frequencies, which are in the 769.XXXX Mhz range. Their system has Talk Groups that are used for dispatch and patrol car traffic. Some of the repeaters I pick up on the scanner sometimes display VHF frequencies as well, but I don't know if those are P25 digital only towers, or id they're just analog signals I'm receiving on the scanner.

My Shark Open Spot 3 hot spot will provide access to the P25 digital mode, I just have to select it on the Open Spot 3, versus DMR, where most of my Amateur Radio activity is generally concentrated. But, I don't know if there's any relationship to the "P25" on my Shark Open Spot 3, and the P25 Tier I and II systems the Highway Patrol is using.

For example, can I program my DMR Anytone 878 handheld with the digital frequencies in the 769.0000 range, the same frequencies the Highway Patrol is using, then select P25 as the mode on my Open Spot 3 hot spot, and monitor the Highway Patrol's P25 traffic. The Anytkne 878 also has a scan option, so it would be very convenient having both amateur and being able to monitor the Highway Patrol. I'm already monitoring analog VHF police frequencies on the Anytone 979, and that works well. I would be cool to also be able to monitor the P25 Tier I and II on our digital equipment.

The Anytone 878 can also be programmed to restrict transmit on any programmed channel, so there would be no danger of transmitting on Highway Patrol frequencies. I just want to monitor them. In my area, there's only about two or three frequencies that the scanner reveals the Highway Patrol is using. I already have the analog VHF frequencies programmed in the Anytone 878 as restricted channels, and can scan them, works great...
 

Whiskey3JMC

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I've always wondered if my Digital Amateur Radios would be capable of receiving their frequencies, which are in the 769.XXXX Mhz range.

For example, can I program my DMR Anytone 878 handheld with the digital frequencies in the 769.0000 range
Short answer, no. Upper limit on the 878UV is 480mhz or 527mhz with the expanded rx mod
 

rbritton1201

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LOL,..I should have checked the frequency range of the radio before posting the question. I guess I was mistakenly remembering the range of the scanner. The frequency range of the Anytone 878 can be extended quite a bit from the factory settings, but nowhere near 769.XXXX.

Still, I wonder if one of our digital radios, if they did have the 769.XXXX frequency range, would receive signals from the Highway Patrol's P25 system through the hot spot, or if they would work directly without the hot spot.
 
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chief21

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Remember that your hotspot is a bridge between your amateur radio and the internet. While amateurs have cleverly employed the internet for increasing the coverage of different types of digital signals, most P25 phase I or phase II systems are intended only to cover a certain geographical area and would have no need to bridge their signals to the internet for all of us to hear. Consequently, your hotspot would not be able to monitor them "over the air" in the way that a scanner might be able to.
 

rbritton1201

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Good to know... thanks!

Remember that your hotspot is a bridge between your amateur radio and the internet. While amateurs have cleverly employed the internet for increasing the coverage of different types of digital signals, most P25 phase I or phase II systems are intended only to cover a certain geographical area and would have no need to bridge their signals to the internet for all of us to hear. Consequently, your hotspot would not be able to monitor them "over the air" in the way that a scanner might be able to.
 

kb2ztx

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No there is not an amateur radio on the market that will receive or decode P25 trunking or conventional. The Yaseu C4FM is different than the standard C4FM P25.

Depending on your specific hot spot you can decode P25 conventional wideband, but you can't listen to it any way. Buy a scanner or SDR for P25 stuff
 

nd5y

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If you are planning something like receiving public safety or other non-amateur transmissions and retransmitting them on your hotspot you should know that the FCC rules prohibit that.
 

rbritton1201

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I suppose what really motivated me to inquire about the prospect of possibly using a digital ham radio with extended receive is the ridiculous cost of the P25 digital scanners from Uniden. The Uniden SDS200 scanner is now $800.00. Currently, I've been using "Broadcastify" to monitor the HIghway Patrol (Digital P25) and the local VHF (Analog) Public Safety Departments simultaneously on my laptop. "Broadcastify" actually works very well, and for about $5 a month.

Except, I can't open two pages at one time on my cell phone while on the go, without dropping the first feed I opened. But, I can open as many feeds on the laptop as I want to, and it doesn't drop them. Also, the P25 signal comes booming in, which I suspect is because the contributor's location is closer to the tower where the P25 transmission originates, but the local VHF departments are weaker because I assume the contributor's location is further away from the local departments I want to monitor.

Buy a scanner or SDR for P25 stuff
 
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rbritton1201

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Won't work anyway...but, not planning to retransmit anything.

If you are planning something like receiving public safety or other non-amateur transmissions and retransmitting them on your hotspot you should know that the FCC rules prohibit that.
 

mikewazowski

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I suppose what really motivated me to inquire about the prospect of possibly using a digital ham radio with extended receive is the ridiculous cost of the P25 digital scanners from Uniden. The Uniden SDS200 scanner is now $800.00.
A couple of potential issues.

MOSWIN is a trunking system so you'd have to scan the channels conventionally using a NAC and Group ID to only listen to specific channels.

Phase II P25 is trunking only and as far as I know, you cannot listen to a Phase II tdma group conventionally. If any of the channels you're trying to listen to are tdma, you'll be SOL.
 

tweiss3

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I suppose what really motivated me to inquire about the prospect of possibly using a digital ham radio with extended receive is the ridiculous cost of the P25 digital scanners from Uniden. The Uniden SDS200 scanner is now $800.00. Currently, I've been using "Broadcastify" to monitor the HIghway Patrol (Digital P25) and the local VHF (Analog) Public Safety Departments simultaneously on my laptop. "Broadcastify" actually works very well, and for about $5 a month.

Except, I can't open two pages at one time on my cell phone while on the go, without dropping the first feed I opened. But, I can open as many feeds on the laptop as I want to, and it doesn't drop them. Also, the P25 signal comes booming in, which I suspect is because the contributor's location is closer to the tower where the P25 transmission originates, but the local VHF departments are weaker because I assume the contributor's location is further away from the local departments I want to monitor.
You can create a dashboard and listen to all your streams on one page.

You can also buy some SDR dongles and set up software on your computer to decode P25 information.
 

rbritton1201

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It's a confusing system, and I'm trying to educate myself further. I always suspected there would be obstacles because it's so far removed from the simple old VHF programming of the past.

A couple of potential issues.

MOSWIN is a trunking system so you'd have to scan the channels conventionally using a NAC and Group ID to only listen to specific channels.

Phase II P25 is trunking only and as far as I know, you cannot listen to a Phase II tdma group conventionally. If any of the channels you're trying to listen to are tdma, you'll be SOL.
 

rbritton1201

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I would appreciate hearing more specifics on this...I'm just hoping to learn about it, and maybe I can apply it to making things work better for me. Are there any links you can point me too, or can you elaborate on the SCR dongle idea? Not sure how to create a dash board on my cell phone. My cell phone is probably about 4 years old, and I suspect I should probably upgrade it soon.

You can create a dashboard and listen to all your streams on one page.

You can also buy some SDR dongles and set up software on your computer to decode P25 information.
 

tweiss3

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I would appreciate hearing more specifics on this...I'm just hoping to learn about it, and maybe I can apply it to making things work better for me. Are there any links you can point me too, or can you elaborate on the SCR dongle idea? Not sure how to create a dash board on my cell phone. My cell phone is probably about 4 years old, and I suspect I should probably upgrade it soon.
Dashboards: Top 6 Feeds - Feed Dashboard create an account then click "Create Dashboard"

Look in the Software Defined Radio section of the forum: Software Defined Radio Unitrunker would be a starting place for software.
 

rbritton1201

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Guys! Fantastic! I set up the dashboard on my laptop and phone, and it works perfectly. Frankly, with my only needing two feeds to cover everything I want to listen to in a Dashboard configuration, it seems like it will be superior to a scanner. With a scanner, you have a chance of losing transmissions if the scanner locks onto the traffic on one channel, and traffic comes in on another channel at the same time With the dashboard, you hear two feeds simultaneously, and you miss nothing. I found that if I fiddle with the respective volume controls on each of the two feeds on the dashboard, making the more important feed dominant with respect to audio, I just split my concentration slightly, and I miss virtually nothing, Thanks so much!
 
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rbritton1201

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I'm a little confused by how to use an SDR dongle, how it connects up to a computer etc...whether it can be accessed by a cell phone once it's operating on the computer, etc.., and which program would be best to decode P25. I have an older Windows 10 laptop, several desktops that are Windows 10, but most of the time, I use my Asus Chromebook. It's small, thin, lite, and more convenient for just surfing and email. I don't know if a Chromebook would be suited for an SDR dongle and P25 decoding software, but I'm eager to learn. I'll check out the SDR dongle idea. Thanks very much!

You can also buy some SDR dongles and set up software on your computer to decode P25 information.
 
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