P25 trunked data question on 396XT/996XT for UPMAN

[ThalesLiberty]

UPMAN. Is there any way to have the scanner output P25 data (like it does for the control channel) on either the uplink side of the control channel or on either the downlink or uplink side of any of the traffic channels? Also same thing for conventional channels. If not I would be very interested in talking to you about seeing what can be done to support this.

Thanks.

 

[KE4ZNR]

UPMAN. Is there any way to have the scanner output P25 data (like it does for the control channel) on either the uplink side of the control channel or on either the downlink or uplink side of any of the traffic channels? Also same thing for conventional channels. If not I would be very interested in talking to you about seeing what can be done to support this.

Thanks.

I am confused as hell as to what you are asking above. Both the 396XT and 996XT output what data there is that comes over the CC. If you use Pro96Com with the 396XT or 996XT you can see system activity on a P25 system.

Marshall KE4ZNR

 

[ProScan]

UPMAN. Is there any way to have the scanner output P25 data (like it does for the control channel) on either the uplink side of the control channel or on either the downlink or uplink side of any of the traffic channels? Also same thing for conventional channels. If not I would be very interested in talking to you about seeing what can be done to support this.

Thanks.

Why would you want the P25 data. Converting to analog? The scanner does that.

 

[ThalesLiberty]

I'll break it down to 3 parts: P25 trunked control channel, P25 trunked traffic channel and P25 conventional

P25 trunked control channel:

Lets say the control channel is 866.00. That means the system transmits to the radios on 866.00 (downlink) (part the scanner listens to and Pro96COM decodes). The radios transmit to the system on 821.00 (uplink)(if scanner is set to this there is no control channel output).

The uplink contains many messages just like the downlink and would be nice to have this out so that Pro96COM and other software can decode it.

P25 trunked traffic channel:
Has an uplink and downlink, and there are plenty of messages here as well in addition to the voice traffic.

P25 Conventional. This can be simplex or repeater (uplink and downlink). There are messages such as ID's, Emergency and many more.

Bottom line is it would be nice for the scanner to output the raw P25 data like it does on a downlink of the control channel on any P25 channel if control channel output is on.

 

[KE4ZNR]

Methinks you are overthinking how a trunking system works.
All you need to do is monitor the data output from the CC. If there is anything of interest from any subscriber radio on the system you will see that data come off of the CC (as long as the radio is affiliated with the site you are monitoring on a Smartzone system).
Marshall KE4ZNR

I'll break it down to 3 parts: P25 trunked control channel, P25 trunked traffic channel and P25 conventional

P25 trunked control channel:

Lets say the control channel is 866.00. That means the system transmits to the radios on 866.00 (downlink) (part the scanner listens to and Pro96COM decodes). The radios transmit to the system on 821.00 (uplink)(if scanner is set to this there is no control channel output).

The uplink contains many messages just like the downlink and would be nice to have this out so that Pro96COM and other software can decode it.

P25 trunked traffic channel:
Has an uplink and downlink, and there are plenty of messages here as well in addition to the voice traffic.

P25 Conventional. This can be simplex or repeater (uplink and downlink). There are messages such as ID's, Emergency and many more.

Bottom line is it would be nice for the scanner to output the raw P25 data like it does on a downlink of the control channel on any P25 channel if control channel output is on.

 

[ThalesLiberty]

Methinks you are overthinking how a trunking system works.
All you need to do is monitor the data output from the CC. If there is anything of interest from any subscriber radio on the system you will see that data come off of the CC (as long as the radio is affiliated with the site you are monitoring on a Smartzone system).
Marshall KE4ZNR

Absolutely not true, there are a ton of messages that are sent by the SU to the FNE that you will not see what they were on the downlink side of the CC. 3 or 4 different messages from a SU can be acknowledged by the FNE the same way so that you have no idea which of the 3 or 4 was sent by the SU. Also I am very much looking to see VERY detailed information from both the up and down link.

 

[KE4ZNR]

Absolutely not true, there are a ton of messages that are sent by the SU to the FNE that you will not see what they were on the downlink side of the CC. 3 or 4 different messages from a SU can be acknowledged by the FNE the same way so that you have no idea which of the 3 or 4 was sent by the SU. Also I am very much looking to see VERY detailed information from both the up and down link.

Looks like what you need to do is get a radio tech job with the company or agency that administers the system you are interested in...hell even the zone controller does not readily give you the minutia info you are looking for...
Marshall KE4ZNR

 

[ThalesLiberty]

Already have the Job, thanks. And its not one system it is all systems. And you correct, the software from Motorola and Harris provides very little detail and almost none of it real time. The Aeroflex give you some as well as the Etherstack OAM, but Pro96COM is by far a better product that any of the others I listed.

 

[Highpockets]

Nice discussion. I wonder if UPMan has any input, I'd like to hear his opinion on this.

 

[slicerwizard]

I'll break it down to 3 parts: P25 trunked control channel, P25 trunked traffic channel and P25 conventional

If you want to decode all of that inbound and outbound traffic, pay a developer to write a PC app for you; any tapped receiver could drive it.

Scanners have no need to decode all of that data, especially inbound traffic, so they're not about to add it just for you and a few other hard core types.

 

[tbiggums]

I'd love to see a scanner or any radio for that matter that would simply output the raw P25 data from the serial port. Whether it's control channel messages (inbound or outbound), conventional voice traffic, or packet data messages, I'd like to have access to all of the data. Let the program (Unitrunker, PRO96COM, or whatever) decide what data is useful.

Right now, the 396XT only outputs outbound messages from the control channel, so if you want to decode anything other than a trunked control channel, you're out of luck.

If raw conventional voice data could be output from the scanner's serial port, you could see things like what kind of encryption is being run (algorithim ID), how often keys are changed (key ID's), emergency status, P25 low speed data, to name a few.

Packet data messages could contain things like DTMF digits for phone patches or other remote control functions, GPS AVL data, or just general MDT messages.

While most of this stuff is above and beyond what most scanner users are interested in, it wouldn't be too hard to simply output all of the raw data for some 3rd party program to process.

I believe the author of Unitrunker has also stated that he'd like to see the scanners not decide what data is useful, and just output any P25 data they receive.

 

[ThalesLiberty]

Well put tbiggums. Let the scanner output the raw data and let us or the software connected decide what to do with it.