P25 with AES and DES legality

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Ok, I live in Garfield County WA. Pomeroy WA.
They decided to encrypt all data over radio.
1. Is it illegal for me to decrypt it ?
2. Is it illegal for me to stream decrypted audio ?
3. Is it illegal for me to record decrypted audio and put it on Youtube in WA State ?
 

rdale

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1 yes
2 yes
3 yes

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. You can't decrypt audio because it can't be done.
 
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Decrypt

Well here is what I found out. The radios that can decrypt it, and scanners that can decrypt it are sold to the Government. Some how private individuals have got their hands on these radios, and are selling them used online.
 

KE5KZW

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This post is for educational and research purposes only.

It is a FELONY where I live (Texas) to even attempt to touch the data inside an encrypted transmission, so you will need to talk with an attorney regarding your states’ laws. There has been talk within the GNU radio groups about this subject. If you take a look at some of the GNU builds then you will see an option for adding the KEY to decode the P25 transmissions. Most agencies can’t afford the AES encryption option, so they go with DES and therein lies the weakness of their set-up.

Good luck with your research…
 

qjschum

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Ok, I live in Garfield County WA. Pomeroy WA.
They decided to encrypt all data over radio.
1. Is it illegal for me to decrypt it ?
2. Is it illegal for me to stream decrypted audio ?
3. Is it illegal for me to record decrypted audio and put it on Youtube in WA State ?
Please send me a message.
 

WayneH

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Well here is what I found out. The radios that can decrypt it, and scanners that can decrypt it are sold to the Government. Some how private individuals have got their hands on these radios, and are selling them used online.
I would not listen to whomever told you this, especially if they say they want to borrow money from you. There's no such thing as a scanner than can decrypt encryption for one thing.
 
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Hmmm.

This post is for educational and research purposes only.

It is a FELONY where I live (Texas) to even attempt to touch the data inside an encrypted transmission, so you will need to talk with an attorney regarding your states’ laws. There has been talk within the GNU radio groups about this subject. If you take a look at some of the GNU builds then you will see an option for adding the KEY to decode the P25 transmissions. Most agencies can’t afford the AES encryption option, so they go with DES and therein lies the weakness of their set-up.

Good luck with your research…
I could understand it being a felony to listen to such communications if they were FBI, CIA, ect. super secret, but local police and deputies ? This shouldn't be illegal ( I know it is ) because it's always been a right of the people to monitor radio frequencies and listen to what is going on.
Shoot with DHS going crazy and all, knowing what is going on around you is very important. Especially if the authorities are planning something that violates someone's rights.

Thanks for your info.

I think it's crazy that it's a felony to listen.
Sounds like those freedom of speech zones around the president.
 

rdale

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No, it doesn't sound like that at all. It has never been the "right" of people to listen to police frequencies. DHS is not going crazy at all - sounds like you're hearing some idiots on Facebook and taking them as speaking the truth.
 

nd5y

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I could understand it being a felony to listen to such communications if they were FBI, CIA, ect. super secret, but local police and deputies ? This shouldn't be illegal ( I know it is ) because it's always been a right of the people to monitor radio frequencies and listen to what is going on.
Shoot with DHS going crazy and all, knowing what is going on around you is very important. Especially if the authorities are planning something that violates someone's rights.
.
Here is the federal law that deals with intercepting encrypted communications.
18 U.S.C. 119 - WIRE AND ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS INTERCEPTION AND INTERCEPTION OF ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
Scroll down to the yellow highlighted part at the bottom of the page.
 
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Crazy ?

No, it doesn't sound like that at all. It has never been the "right" of people to listen to police frequencies. DHS is not going crazy at all - sounds like you're hearing some idiots on Facebook and taking them as speaking the truth.
Well a year and a half ago, I'd be right there with you saying they are all crazy, and you can trust the Justice System and all that. But when it happens to you, in your home, and you hear the Government officials tell you the same crazy things that people claim they are saying on Facebook, I guess you can just tell yourself it didn't really happen and everything's ok.

They didn't just set a repeat sex offender and child molester free in your town, and give him custody of a child he molested. They didn't tell you that all children belong in State foster care, and that biological parents don't deserve to have children because they haven't had State Training, and they didn't come in and take a woman's gun away when she only had it to protect herself from someone who raped her, and they didn't place a 6 year old with an alkaholic in a black dark underground dungeon who has a history of abuse, and they didn't cover up people's records and erase them, and they didn't ignore reports made about a child being molested, and they are all perfect people who do a great job, and they should be trusted to run our lives.

I'm sorry for my reality, maybe I can take some pills to make it go away ?

:)

Truthfully ~ An Eagle Scout.
 
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Well here is what I found out. The radios that can decrypt it, and scanners that can decrypt it are sold to the Government. Some how private individuals have got their hands on these radios, and are selling them used online.

Sounds like complete garbage...
Where are they being sold?..internet?..like all those guns you can buy over the net without a background check?

Scanners have no way of knowing the decryption keys,let alone receive OTAR updates.

The most at this point you may get a radio that has a voice inverter. But thats not encryption.

Ive grown to Love these topics..Not saying in years to come there wont be software that can crack encryption in real time...
DSD is a good example i use..About 6 months prior to DSDs release I posted this Q here..
Can you use a computer and a sound card input to decode a digital motorola system?..
6 months Before DSD mind you...i get many overwhelming NOs!!never gonna happen..

All those opinions are now obsolete..So today...No...encryption is like the sun..we cant touch it..but the future,,hell maybe even tomorrow it could change.None of us can say with absolute certainty.Thats why ill never say theres no god..No one knows,,and I like th hedge my bets!

Just my lil 2 pennies im throwin in..Cheers..
 
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Digital Scanners

According to the local sheriff here, they are not encrypted, they are digital, and with digital scanners we can hear them.
 

KE5KZW

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Love these topics as well.

I've grown to Love these topics..Not saying in years to come there wont be software that can crack encryption in real time...
DSD is a good example i use..About 6 months prior to DSDs release I posted this Q here..
Can you use a computer and a sound card input to decode a digital Motorola system?..
6 months Before DSD mind you...i get many overwhelming NOs!! never gonna happen..

All those opinions are now obsolete..So today...No...encryption is like the sun..we cant touch it..but the future,,hell maybe even tomorrow it could change.None of us can say with absolute certainty. Thats why ill never say there's no god..No one knows,,and I like to hedge my bets!
The first thing I was thinking about when I read this post was the cellar A5 encryption and Blue tables. Wiretapping Made Easy - Forbes.com

Basically, Eve creates a blue table of all known keys. She then uses those keys in an attempt to brute force the signal. (Huge Work Factor). She uses a python script to feed the keys to GNU radio and then linking the out-put to NICE. (NICE Systems | Intent. Insight. Impact.) NICE will then analyze the out-put for voice traffic.

(Never heard of Eve??? Google Alice, Bob and Eve)

Very similar to how the first intercepted/decryption A5 signal was attacked at Def-con.
http://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-13/dc13-presentations/DC_13-Tanner-Smith-Lareau.pdf

Cheers.....
 
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Ok, so it's not analogue, it's digital, not encrypted. Now would I be able to stream to this site, and how ?
 

radioman2001

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Had to jump in on this one. Just ship the encrypted data to Canada, or anyplace else, that don't have any such laws on decrypting, after it's decrypted then ship it back, isn't the internet wonderful. LOL Especially if it's Turbo or ADP crap. Both less secure than good old DES.

Seriously as home computers and distributed online computing comes more of age, most weak encryption systems will easily be defeated. (DES was broken years ago, that's an eternity in computer systems lifespans) AES is another story, but Mother M isn't giving that away, just cheap ADP. Somewhat easy to break.
 

OemUser

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Had to jump in on this one. Just ship the encrypted data to Canada, or anyplace else, that don't have any such laws on decrypting, after it's decrypted then ship it back, isn't the internet wonderful. LOL Especially if it's Turbo or ADP crap. Both less secure than good old DES.

Mmmmm....don't think he wants to do that.....



Radiocommunication Act
R.S.C., 1985, c. R-2



OFFENCES AND PUNISHMENT
Prohibitions

9. (1) No person shall

(a) knowingly send, transmit or cause to be sent or transmitted any false or fraudulent distress signal, message, call or radiogram of any kind;

(b) without lawful excuse, interfere with or obstruct any radiocommunication;

(c) decode an encrypted subscription programming signal or encrypted network feed otherwise than under and in accordance with an authorization from the lawful distributor of the signal or feed;

(d) operate a radio apparatus so as to receive an encrypted subscription programming signal or encrypted network feed that has been decoded in contravention of paragraph (c); or

(e) retransmit to the public an encrypted subscription programming signal or encrypted network feed that has been decoded in contravention of paragraph (c).






The govt' got pretty pi$$ed about the great DISH debacle when there was an availability of decoder cards and such....a few people got nailed. This was one of the sections they used for prosecution.
 

Gezelle007

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According to the local sheriff here, they are not encrypted, they are digital, and with digital scanners we can hear them.
If it's not encrypted and it's just digital then streaming it online through Broadcastify is not illegal. If you have a digital scanner and you're hearing them, it's not encrypted.

And the DB in Garfield County, WA shows nothing relating to digital or encryption, so if you could update it, that would be cool- then we'll know what you're dealing with.
 
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01g1tAL SCANNER

If it's not encrypted and it's just digital then streaming it online through Broadcastify is not illegal. If you have a digital scanner and you're hearing them, it's not encrypted.

And the DB in Garfield County, WA shows nothing relating to digital or encryption, so if you could update it, that would be cool- then we'll know what you're dealing with.
Thanks man. I have a limited budjet. I'm looking to get such a scanner, that I can plug in, possibly rechargeable as well.
I think i'm inexperienced at knowing what sites to look on. The only ones I see under $100 take AA batteries and are not rechargeable, and I don't think you can plug them in. 12v would be the best.
Also as far as streaming it on the net, I use a Linux PC so I'd need something that works with that, and as far as the radio I don't know if it would need to be able to stream itself, or if I put a mic in front of it, or record it's output (headphone jack) or what. I guess I'd need a dedicated PC for that. Would 97kbs be good for that ?

Also I was thinking about recording. In the State of WA I think it would be illegal to record the scanner, but I'm not sure. If Streaming is legal, why isn't recording ?
 
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