P25

JamesMiracle

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So I’m looking into buying a P25 scanner, in my area some of the county’s are saying P25 Phase 2, I’m finding Phase 1 and 2 some places Phase 1 are a bit cheaper so my question is would Phase 1 be able to hear Phase 2 and what’s the difference between Phase 1 and 2
 

bob550

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The first thing to do is to let us know what agencies you plan to listen to in your area so we can better answer your questions. That said, a scanner capable of receiving only P25 Phase 1 will not decode Phase 2 transmissions. And, if some of those agencies are Simulcast, then only an SDS 100/200 would be your choice.
 

Whiskey3JMC

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so my question is would Phase 1 be able to hear Phase 2 and what’s the difference between Phase 1 and 2
Yes and no depending if talkgroups on said system are FDMA (Mode D in the RRDB) or TDMA (Mode "T in the RRDB). The former can be monitored with a Phase-I scanner if the system is Phase-II capable. Modes "DE" and "TE" indicate full encryption so these talkgroups cannot be monitored with any scanner. Please post the database link(s) to the system(s) in question if you need further help

Read below regarding their differences
1.2.1 Project 25 Phases
 

RaleighGuy

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So I’m looking into buying a P25 scanner, in my area some of the county’s are saying P25 Phase 2, I’m finding Phase 1 and 2 some places Phase 1 are a bit cheaper so my question is would Phase 1 be able to hear Phase 2 and what’s the difference between Phase 1 and 2

Phase 2 is an upgrade to Phase one, it allows both slots to be used, basically doubling the amount of traffic can be heard. Phase 1 scanners will not decode Phase 2. See the above by @Whiskey3JMC for more info on mixed systems talkgroup decode.

Many agencies that have both P1 and P2 talkgroups are actually in the process of moving to a P2 system as funds for radio replacement becomes available, a number of systems that are P1 only now are looking at upgrading to P2, such as NC Statewide Viper system that plans on starting next year.

More information on Phase 2 is in the RR wiki.
 

MTS2000des

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Many Motorola systems also support DDM, dual dynamic mode, which allows a TDMA talkgroup to be downgraded to FDMA. Just because a given talk group on an MSI Astro 25 system may show FDMA on a scanner, doesn't mean it isn't provisioned for DDM. Most of the talk groups on the system I maintain are provisioned as DDM and thus, can be FDMA one day and TDMA the next. Only way to know for sure is to contact the system owner or get a TDMA capable scanner and then you won't miss all UNENCRYPTED traffic.
 

Blackswan73

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The first thing to do is to let us know what agencies you plan to listen to in your area so we can better answer your questions. That said, a scanner capable of receiving only P25 Phase 1 will not decode Phase 2 transmissions. And, if some of those agencies are Simulcast, then only an SDS 100/200 would be your choice.
Not true! There are other much less expensive options that will reliably receive simulcast transmissions. For example you can purchase a $40 usb dongle. The only drawback to this option is it requires a dedicated computer. Also there is the Bluetail Nano. This is an approximately $175-250 standalone scanner that can operate independently of a computer. In fact, you can even program it without a computer. The drawback to this operation is you need an amplified speaker, such as a $20 JBL Bluetooth speaker. The only advantage I find to the Uniden SDS series is the ability to decode NXDN and DMR. I would dump my SDS in a heartbeat if I could listen to NXDN with my Bluetail. In fact, I may do that anyway. I’m thinking that when the new Indiana encryption law takes effect, I’m going to wish I hadn’t spent $700 for a SDS. I don’t even use it much anyway since I got my Bluetail setup. But anyway the SDS scanners are definitely not the only option for simulcast phase 2

B.S.
 

bob550

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Not true! There are other much less expensive options that will reliably receive simulcast transmissions.
The OP is looking for a scanner. I certainly understand that there are alternatives. My Unication G5 handles our local P25 Simulcast systems perfectly. My SDRPlay RSP1 fed into SDRTrunk and Trunking Recorder gives me operating advantages that none of my other scanners can. However, the G5 is primarily a pager who's off-label use happens to be a scanner substitute. The use of an SDR and computer-based software requires more knowledge and effort to get to the point where you can actually listen to transmissions. So yes, my statement is technically wrong, but practically correct.
 

Blackswan73

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Bluetail Nano is not an SDR. It is most certainly a standalone scanner. It can be programmed with nothing more than a zip code or control channel frequency, without using a pc.

B.S.
 

jeepsandradios

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It really depends on what you want to listen to. If your location is right your in Patrick County. They are all analog so any $100 scanner will work. If you want to listen to VSP I'd recommend a Phase II scanner. If you want to listen to Franklin north of you again you need Phase II scanner.
 

JamesMiracle

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It really depends on what you want to listen to. If your location is right your in Patrick County. They are all analog so any $100 scanner will work. If you want to listen to VSP I'd recommend a Phase II scanner. If you want to listen to Franklin north of you again you need Phase II scanner.
I do live in Patrick Co but I’m 5 minutes from Henry county (which is where I work and spend most of my time) would I need phase 1 or 2 for Henry County Henry County, Virginia (VA) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference
 

buddrousa

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@Blackswan73
You can always sell the sds in the CLASSIFIEDS.
NEWS BREAK
A 5 year old SDS will only lose 1/7 of its original price so a SDS new $700 used $600 thats $20 a year for its use.
A new Car sells for $50,000 5 years later it will sell for $15,000 that is a $35,000 lost at $7,000 a year but you will trade and not think about it.
 

jtwalker

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Bluetail Nano is not an SDR. It is most certainly a standalone scanner. It can be programmed with nothing more than a zip code or control channel frequency, without using a pc.

B.S.
I know nothing of BTT but know there is no way you can program it without a pc but instead using a zip. Where does the data that zip code is matched up against come from? Just doesn’t make logistical sense, but feel free to prove me wrong.

EDIT: I looked it up for myself. You download the data from BTT’s website and place on SD card … with a pc.
 
Last edited:

buddrousa

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IMG_20230521_180741_480x480.png

Yup nice keyboard and display
 

Blackswan73

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I know nothing of BTT but know there is no way you can program it without a pc but instead using a zip. Where does the data that zip code is matched up against come from? Just doesn’t make logistical sense, but feel free to prove me wrong.

EDIT: I looked it up for myself. You download the data from BTT’s website and place on SD card … with a pc.
I programmed mine by entering in a control channel freq. no pc. Yes, to program via zip code you have to have the database on a sd card, same as all zip code scanners, all the way back to the first zip code scanners by GRE/RS. My point was you don’t need a pc to run the scanner like you do with a sdr. Like I stated, I first programmed my Nano with nothing more than a control channel frequency. It worked fine for reception, but it wasn’t able to identify the talk groups transmitting. That took entertaining the talk group names via a pc. You can actually import all the program information from Proscan. I actually had all the info I needed from my Home Patrol 2 file, which I programmed via zip code.

B.S.
 

Blackswan73

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@Blackswan73
You can always sell the sds in the CLASSIFIEDS.
NEWS BREAK
A 5 year old SDS will only lose 1/7 of its original price so a SDS new $700 used $600 thats $20 a year for its use.
A new Car sells for $50,000 5 years later it will sell for $15,000 that is a $35,000 lost at $7,000 a year but you will trade and not think about it.
Actually, that is becoming more and more a possibility, since I have my eye on a Drake R8. The only thing my SDS can do that my Bluetail can’t, is receive NXDN, and the only thing I want NXDN for is railroads. So selling my 4 month old SDS is starting to look more and more a viable option.

B.S.
 

maus92

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@JamesMiracle if you travel around, the portable SDS100 is your best option as it can do both Phase 1 and Phase 2 simulcast and is the most flexible solution (and one of the most expensive solutions.) If you are trying to monitor from a fixed base, you will have more options. The Bluetail device is a kludgy, multi-component device that its user base reports works great; the SDS200 is a base / mobile radio that is functionally identical to the SDS100. PC based SDRs are probably the cheapest option, but require some amount of computer processing power and skills to configure. I prefer my Unication when monitoring our local system from a fixed position, but prefer the SDS100 when travelling, especially when using GPS location based scanning.
 
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