PA 700 MHz Air to Ground System

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scnrfrq

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That is likely all it will be used for. Even as the new P25 system gets built out for PA to replace the OpenSky network, the current P25 system you're talking about will remain solely for the aircraft. Since the sites are optimized for aircraft coverage, it would just continue on as a gateway into the new system once it is online, same as it is now a gateway into the OpenSky network currently in place. The new P25 buildout should begin testing in 2016 in NW PA. They're starting there since the Erie area brings special coordiantion issues with Canada (regarding potential interference and approvals).

I live in Erie and am vey interested in the rollout of the new system. With our bad winter weather it used to be very important to listen to the troopers re road conditions, accidents, etc. Also, our Presque Isle state park rangers went to the Opensky system also, and now all of our first responders to drownings, fires, etc. can't talk directly to the rangers. Really a bad situation. I also used to listen to the lifeguards, which was really interesting on its own.

I'd really like to be aware of any testing or progress in my area for the new system. If anyone who gets info wants to contact me directly, that would be fine.
 

Voyager

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Are you talking about the 700 MHz system (the topic of this thread) or the new VHF system? The 700 MHz system is complete.
 

scnrfrq

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Are you talking about the 700 MHz system (the topic of this thread) or the new VHF system? The 700 MHz system is complete.

I'm just a little confused. I was referring to the new P25 system that will replace the Opensky system. Is that the same as the new VHF system? And the new 700 MHZ system is just for aircraft?
 

HM1529

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The Phase 1 P25 700MHz system currently listed in the database is the system used by the aircraft. There will be a new P25 Phase 2 system coming online in the future that will be a VHF/700/800 hybrid system. That new TRS is the system whose testing is slated to begin in NW PA some time in 2016; it will be the replacement for the current OpenSky. The Phase 1 will remain in service specifically for aircraft use.
 

scnrfrq

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The Phase 1 P25 700MHz system currently listed in the database is the system used by the aircraft. There will be a new P25 Phase 2 system coming online in the future that will be a VHF/700/800 hybrid system. That new TRS is the system whose testing is slated to begin in NW PA some time in 2016; it will be the replacement for the current OpenSky. The Phase 1 will remain in service specifically for aircraft use.

Is there a way to know when the testing is being done? I currently don't have any scanners that receive Phase 2, and will have to buy one to hear this.
 

riveter

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Go down to the sample of DQPSK on This Page.
As the licenses pop up for this system, they may specify particular frequencies for particular tower sites (but may also not, if they do some statewide 700 licenses like MD did for some sites). Listen to ID'd frequencies occasionally for that sound. Once you hear that sound, you'll know there's a new TDMA system coming on the air. After that point, you're either gonna want to monitor the control channel with Unitrunker, or bite the bullet and get something that will decode TDMA DQPSK.
 

scnrfrq

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Go down to the sample of DQPSK on This Page.
As the licenses pop up for this system, they may specify particular frequencies for particular tower sites (but may also not, if they do some statewide 700 licenses like MD did for some sites). Listen to ID'd frequencies occasionally for that sound. Once you hear that sound, you'll know there's a new TDMA system coming on the air. After that point, you're either gonna want to monitor the control channel with Unitrunker, or bite the bullet and get something that will decode TDMA DQPSK.

Thanks for that info. Can you tell me how to check for the licenses showing up? What site should I monitor, and how will I know the name of the new system?
 

rrbum

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Not to be a "Danny Downer", but you may want to hold off pulling the trigger on a new phase 2 radio until we see if full time encryption is used on all talkgroups. I know I am. No one misses monitoring PSP more than me as they cover where I live as there is no local PD in my town. Been monitoring them for decades until OpenFly became the norm.
Section 13 of the proposal for bids on the new system specifically states they want aes encryption capable equipment.
NO ONE knows for sure if everything will be encrypted until system is brought online and is being used full time.

Hopefully only sensitive comms will be locked down and no one will be stupid enough to stream anything not encrypted.

Chances of the above are slim to none in my opinion. But, we can still hope, and maybe even live long enough to see this new system brought online.
 
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HM1529

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Yes, no, maybe. There are sites licensed around the state, sites that are in the approval process, and more sites planned. VHF spectrum is at a premium in some areas, so they will have to reuse some of their existing legacy VHF frequencies.

To see what has been licensed (someone else asked), go to a county database page, click on the FCC licenses tab on the upper right area of the screen, then click either the "last 100" or "all" options. If there has not been a lot of new licensing or renewal activity in a county, the new stuff will appear in the "last 100" listing. Otherwise, you will have to go through the list of licensees in the county. Make sure "public safety conventional" and "public safety trunked" are turned on. Find the licences for "Pennsylvania, Commonwealth of". There are some older licenses for the OpenSky that are "Commonwealth of Pennsylvania".

The licenses for Commonwealth of PA (Pennsylvania, Commonwealth of) with the FB8 designator are for the new Phase 2 system.

This link takes you to all the active licenses for the FRN associated with the STARNET stuff. Pennsylvania has other active FRN's because various state universities and other state entities not on STARNET all have their own FRN which also lists Pennsylvania, Commonwealth of as the licensee.

Callsigns for FCC FRN: 0003178472 (Commonwealth of Pennsylvania)

At the above link, the FB2's on VHF are primarily part of the upgraded DCNR network. I suppose it is possible they could be integrated into the new system, as needed, if sites can get approval for mods to FB8 (may not be possible or desirable depending on interference contours). Sharing of federal VHF spectrum and Part 22 VHF spectrum through partnerships has also been tossed around as possible solutions to getting sufficient frequencies in certain areas. State licenses at 700MHz do not show up in the database. So, with all this, there might be a lot of searching needed down the road to flesh the new system out as it comes online.
 
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soberbyker

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Yes, no, maybe.

~snip~.

Thanks for the info. :)

I remember when I could listen to the Phila. and Media (used to be Franklin [Center?]) barracks, although with the cars and dispatch on different channels it was tough to hear a complete conversation unless I was only monitoring the PSP.
 

scnrfrq

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Yes, no, maybe. There are sites licensed around the state, sites that are in the approval process, and more sites planned. VHF spectrum is at a premium in some areas, so they will have to reuse some of their existing legacy VHF frequencies.

To see what has been licensed (someone else asked), go to a county database page, click on the FCC licenses tab on the upper right area of the screen, then click either the "last 100" or "all" options. If there has not been a lot of new licensing or renewal activity in a county, the new stuff will appear in the "last 100" listing. Otherwise, you will have to go through the list of licensees in the county. Make sure "public safety conventional" and "public safety trunked" are turned on. Find the licences for "Pennsylvania, Commonwealth of". There are some older licenses for the OpenSky that are "Commonwealth of Pennsylvania".

The licenses for Commonwealth of PA (Pennsylvania, Commonwealth of) with the FB8 designator are for the new Phase 2 system.

This link takes you to all the active licenses for the FRN associated with the STARNET stuff. Pennsylvania has other active FRN's because various state universities and other state entities not on STARNET all have their own FRN which also lists Pennsylvania, Commonwealth of as the licensee.

Callsigns for FCC FRN: 0003178472 (Commonwealth of Pennsylvania)

At the above link, the FB2's on VHF are primarily part of the upgraded DCNR network. I suppose it is possible they could be integrated into the new system, as needed, if sites can get approval for mods to FB8 (may not be possible or desirable depending on interference contours). Sharing of federal VHF spectrum and Part 22 VHF spectrum through partnerships has also been tossed around as possible solutions to getting sufficient frequencies in certain areas. State licenses at 700MHz do not show up in the database. So, with all this, there might be a lot of searching needed down the road to flesh the new system out as it comes online.

So if a DCNR park is now on the Opensky system (no VHF active), they would automatically be part of the new VHF P25 system?
 

scnrfrq

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Is there a way to know when the testing is being done? I currently don't have any scanners that receive Phase 2, and will have to buy one to hear this.

Nothing has been licensed yet for the P25 here in Erie County. I would think it would happen soon if testing is supposed to begin here this year?
 

Voyager

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You can put something on the air the same day it's licensed - especially in the post-crystal era. The only thing you cannot do is transmit prior to the license being issued.
 

talviar

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You can put something on the air once the coordinator submits the app. . . . . So once the app shows up in the DB the transmitters could be fired up understanding that it may have to change freq or shut down depending on final license outcome. . . . . .
 

Voyager

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I sit corrected. I'm not sure I would want to take that leap of faith personally, but I'll accept your word as being correct.
 

talviar

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Yep- I wouldn't want to do that either. Found that out a few years ago when a Casino local to me turned on their radio system found out the hard way what happens when someone makes a typo on the application. . . . Like put a 78 instead of a 79 on the coordinates and wrong freqs get selected. . . . . . . .

Local Radio shop called me to help track down an "interfering continuous data sound" aka control channel for a TRBO system on one of their repeaters.

Facility and shop said FU. Coordinator was more than helpful once the mistake was pointed out. . . . . . .
 
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