PA Statewide P25 Phase 2 System

[GTR8000]

I think we might be jumping the gun by assuming that Wells Tannery (FULT01) has changed Site ID from 48 to 3, and that Tuscarora Summit (FULT40) is going to be Site 107. For all we know, they moved the equipment from FULT01 to FULT40, are using the same frequencies, and changed the Site ID. Or, as @HM1529 speculated, perhaps FULT01 and FULT40 are going to become a simulcast cell with a new Site ID of 3.

I want to amend my previous post where I stated that FULT01 and FULT40 share the same three frequencies with the exception of 151.0625. I should've paid more attention to the licenses, where it would've been readily apparent to me that 151.0625 at FULT40 is actually licensed as FB2 with analog emissions, not P25 emissions.

So in fact FULT01 and FULT40 are both licensed for the same three frequencies when it comes to P25 trunking.

Since both sites have the same frequencies, the only way to truly determine what is going on is to visit each site and perform the old "antenna off the receiver" trick to see which are active. Or someone can look at the waveform of the 151.2275 control channel to determine if it's C4FM or LSM (QPSK), which will provide a clue as to standalone vs simulcast.

 

[mtindor]

Just an FYI, a buddy I correspond with via email (who is on the forums) was at FULT40 on June 18, 2018 and could monitor the 151.2275 with 5 bars on the scanner while at FULT40 but got nothing with the antenna off.

I can't remember if that is how we based Site 1.49 being FULT01 and not FULT40 originally.

He reported to me today that some months back he got word from a reliable source that FULT40 would be coming online around December. So I guess there should be two sites online now. Are they a simulcast cell now? And has that changed to Site 1.3? Are FULT01 and FULT40 two separate (non-simulcast) sites with different sets of frequencies in use? I couldn't tell ya.

He also said that he could not copy 161.85 (1.107) from just north of Chambersburg.

So I still say that, short of somebody visiting both FULT01 and FULT40 (with appropriate means to check for local RF signal vs remote0, a good option to figure some of this stuff out is for those who can capture neighbor lists from all surrounding sites to grab some updated info for us.

Of course, like GTR said, if somebody has the capability to confirm if Site 1.3 is a QPSK signal versus C4FM, that's helpful too. If it's C4FM, then one is going to have to figure what frequencies FULT01 is using versus what frequencies FULT40 is using (assuming 161.85 isn't one of the two sites).

Mike

 

[BM82557]

Agreed. Those who can pick up HUNT04, FRAN01, FRAN02 and BEDF02 should attempt to capture the last neighbor/peer list (with site Ids / cc frequencies of course). That would really help to narrow down where 1.107 is. Maybe 1.107 is going to be FULT40. I know FULT40 is licensed for different frequencies, but those frequencies are already in use by FULT40.

Mike

Here's FRAN01 & FRAN02

 

[mtindor]

Here's FRAN01 & FRAN02

View attachment 77766View attachment 77767

Well, definitely 1.48 no longer exists as 1.48. But of more interest is the lack of 1.107 as a neighbor of 1.49 or 1.50. That could suggest that site 1.107 is North or West of Fulton OR that site 1.07 isn't truly online via RF yet.

If site 1.107 is online via RF, then it might be FULT05, BLAI02, BEDF03, BEDF630 or BEDF631, or even FULT04.

That still leaves the question of whether FULT10 went from 1.48 to 1.3, or if FULT10 / FULT40 are now 1.3 as a simulcast, or something else.

Since FULT01 and FULT40 are licensed for the same three freqs, maybe they did turn on FULT40 as Site 1.3 using the old FULT40 freqs and then brought FULT01 back online with 161.85 and other PC freqs. If they did that, that might explain why 1.3 shows as neighbors of FRAN but 1.107 does not show as a neighbor of FRAN.

We need some folks around BEDF13 / BEDF02 / HUNT04 to get an updated neighbor list and see what has changed (as well as have those same people check for activity on 161.85.

For anyone that ever looks at that Google map that i made, please keep in mind that i never finished adding all of the Opensky licenses. So even though there are a ton of black dots on that map, they do not even come close to representing the entirety of the existing opensky sites. For instance, there is a FULT04 -- but it's nowhere on the Google map anywhere. If I had completed adding all of those crazy Opensky licenses, it would be there as an option to see.

Mike

 

[N3BGA]

We need some folks around BEDF13 / BEDF02 / HUNT04 to get an updated neighbor list and see what has changed (as well as have those same people check for activity on 161.85.

I tried HUNT04 from Timmons Mountain this evening. 107 was not listed as a neighbor. I saw no activity on 161.85 from Timmons Mountain or Clark's Knob (near FRAN01).

SDRTrunk logs:
20191208_173718.344_154422500_Hz_HUNT04_decoded_messages.log:20191208 173816,PASSED,NAC:2376 AMBTC ADJ SITE STATUS SYSTEM:2370 LRA:0 RFSS:1 SITE:3 CHAN:4-491/4-3561
20191208_173718.344_154422500_Hz_HUNT04_decoded_messages.log:20191208 173817,PASSED,NAC:2376 AMBTC ADJ SITE STATUS SYSTEM:2370 LRA:0 RFSS:1 SITE:44 CHAN:5-45/4-2885
20191208_173718.344_154422500_Hz_HUNT04_decoded_messages.log:20191208 173817,PASSED,NAC:2376 AMBTC ADJ SITE STATUS SYSTEM:2370 LRA:0 RFSS:1 SITE:77 CHAN:5-40/4-2880
20191208_173718.344_154422500_Hz_HUNT04_decoded_messages.log:20191208 173818,PASSED,NAC:2376 AMBTC ADJ SITE STATUS SYSTEM:2370 LRA:0 RFSS:1 SITE:49 CHAN:4-554/4-3546
20191208_173718.344_154422500_Hz_HUNT04_decoded_messages.log:20191208 173818,PASSED,NAC:2376 AMBTC ADJ SITE STATUS SYSTEM:2370 LRA:0 RFSS:1 SITE:63 CHAN:4-1866/4-3714
20191208_173718.344_154422500_Hz_HUNT04_decoded_messages.log:20191208 173819,PASSED,NAC:2376 AMBTC ADJ SITE STATUS SYSTEM:2370 LRA:0 RFSS:1 SITE:51 CHAN:4-3519/4-497
20191208_173718.344_154422500_Hz_HUNT04_decoded_messages.log:20191208 173820,PASSED,NAC:2376 AMBTC ADJ SITE STATUS SYSTEM:2370 LRA:0 RFSS:1 SITE:62 CHAN:4-2184/4-3759

 

[mtindor]

I tried HUNT04 from Timmons Mountain this evening. 107 was not listed as a neighbor. I saw no activity on 161.85 from Timmons Mountain or Clark's Knob (near FRAN01).

Thank you. Interesting. Either 1.107 VHF control channel isn't online, or 1.107 is NW, W or SW of Fulton.

 

[HM1529]

Could mystery site 107 be located at BEDF03 (SGL 97 W/SW of Everett)?

 

[BM82557]

That was the BSI and NAC for FULT40 Site 48
I wonder if they have a site just for operation inside the tunnels

I wonder about that also

 

[mtindor]

Could mystery site 107 be located at BEDF03 (SGL 97 W/SW of Everett)?

I'm sure it could. But that's why we need somebody from that area to check 161.85 and to grab neighbor lists from the Bedford sites. i was thinking the same thing. Or it could be one of the smaller Fulton Co sites SW of FULT01.

So questions that need answering:

1. is 1.3 a simulcast or not
2. what locations are part of the 1.3 simulcast if it is a simulcast
3. where is 1.107 (SW Fulton such as FULT04 in Warfordsburg or over in Bedford Co)

Mike

 

[mtindor]

I wonder about that also

For those of who don't live in PA, where are the referenced tunnels?

Mike

 

[HM1529]

For those of who don't live in PA, where are the referenced tunnels?

Mike

I presume they mean the PA turnpike tunnels. Between Burnt Cabins on the west and Newville on the east, there are three tunnels...Tuscarora, Kittatinny, and Blue Mtn.

 

[BM82557]

For those of who don't live in PA, where are the referenced tunnels?

Mike

On the PA Turnpike

Oops! I didn't see HM's response! Sorry!

 

[u2brent]

I'd not rule out this location for 1.107..

Tuscarora Mtn Tunnel/Huntingdon (Fannetsburg)

FCC Callsign WFK494 (Penna. Turnpike Comm.)

FCC Callsign WFK494 (Penna. Turnpike Comm.)

www.radioreference.com

WRDT289 (PENNSYLVANIA TURNPIKE COMMISSION) FCC Callsign Details (loc 5)

 

[druhe]

We need some folks around BEDF13 / BEDF02 / HUNT04 to get an updated neighbor list and see what has changed (as well as have those same people check for activity on 161.85.

For anyone that ever looks at that Google map that i made, please keep in mind that i never finished adding all of the Opensky licenses. So even though there are a ton of black dots on that map, they do not even come close to representing the entirety of the existing opensky sites. For instance, there is a FULT04 -- but it's nowhere on the Google map anywhere. If I had completed adding all of those crazy Opensky licenses, it would be there as an option to see.

Mike

Here is BEDF13 site 1.77 as of today:


09 13:08:05 Current network: BEE00.942
2019/12/09 13:08:06 Current site: BEE00.942-1.77
2019/12/09 13:08:15 BEE00.942-1.77 neighbor: Site BEE00.942-1.3; CC=4-491 151.2275
2019/12/09 13:08:16 BEE00.942-1.77 neighbor: Site BEE00.942-1.41; CC=4-593 151.4825
2019/12/09 13:08:16 BEE00.942-1.77 neighbor: Site BEE00.942-1.47; CC=4-1769 154.4225
2019/12/09 13:08:17 BEE00.942-1.77 neighbor: Site BEE00.942-1.39; CC=5-55 161.8375
2019/12/09 13:08:18 BEE00.942-1.77 neighbor: Site BEE00.942-1.35; CC=4-539 151.3475
2019/12/09 13:08:19 BEE00.942-1.77 neighbor: Site BEE00.942-1.62; CC=4-2184 155.4600
2019/12/09 13:08:22 BEE00.942-1.77 neighbor: Site BEE00.942-1.107; CC=5-60 161.8500

It looks like a road trip s in order, probably next Monday pending weather

 

[u2brent]

I'd drive by here..
BLAI02 - Martinsburg, PA

FCC Callsign WPZU936 (Commonwealth of Pennsylvania)

FCC Callsign WPZU936 (Commonwealth of Pennsylvania)

www.radioreference.com

It's right in the middle of an open space on the map.. Much more likely than my tunnel idea/just a thought.
Or one of those Bedford Sites..

RRDB looks nice Ben..

 

[Twister_2]

An unfortunate development (I think?) with regards to TG 12151. They said ASP today, not ASB, so I think we can disregard the aviation support unit. Not sure how else to describe their voices other than they definitely are not military related. They have poor skills, like to sing and mess around, and talk about packages and shipments. Today one unit found a package containing a certain quantity (32 I think) and returned it to the office. She also confirmed the UPC / serial number on it.

I guess ASP can stand for Ammunition Supply Building but I really can't match these voices to Armed Forces personnel.

 

[mtindor]

HUNT01, SOME02 and BEDF02 -- anybody close to those who can get a new neighbor list?

Mike

 

[GTR8000]

Ellendale area listeners. I got some hits today on 12151 that definitely wasn't Penndot. Lots of talking about keys for gates and a gator. "Yard to ASB We are leaving the area now. Please follow us and collect us at the rally point. Over" "Office to yard." Oh and they sang Black Betty at one point.

Any RID's?

These have been observed on 12151
Possibly northwestern PA area units
1134008 DOT Unit TG 10098/12151
1134140 DOT Unit TG 12151
1134147 DOT Unit TG 12151

An unfortunate development (I think?) with regards to TG 12151. They said ASP today, not ASB, so I think we can disregard the aviation support unit. Not sure how else to describe their voices other than they definitely are not military related. They have poor skills, like to sing and mess around, and talk about packages and shipments. Today one unit found a package containing a certain quantity (32 I think) and returned it to the office. She also confirmed the UPC / serial number on it.

I guess ASP can stand for Ammunition Supply Building but I really can't match these voices to Armed Forces personnel.

Seems that the 121xx block has so far been DGS related, while 11xxx has been DOT. Not that there can't be some crossover, but I'd be looking more for some sort of state agency possibly related to or under DGS.

 

[druhe]

HUNT01, SOME02 and BEDF02 -- anybody close to those who can get a new neighbor list?

Mike

Here's SOME02. The others will have to wait, till next week

2019/12/09 21:33:06 Current network: BEE00.942
2019/12/09 21:33:07 Current site: BEE00.942-1.39
2019/12/09 21:33:10 BEE00.942-1.39 neighbor: Site BEE00.942-1.41; CC=4-593 151.4825
2019/12/09 21:33:11 BEE00.942-1.39 neighbor: Site BEE00.942-1.77; CC=5-40 161.8000
2019/12/09 21:33:12 BEE00.942-1.39 neighbor: Site BEE00.942-1.35; CC=4-539 151.3475
2019/12/09 21:33:12 BEE00.942-1.39 neighbor: Site BEE00.942-1.107; CC=5-60 161.8500
2019/12/09 21:33:13 BEE00.942-1.39 neighbor: Site BEE00.942-1.36; CC=5-70 161.8750
2019/12/09 21:33:14 BEE00.942-1.39 neighbor: Site BEE00.942-1.40; CC=5-45 161.8125
2019/12/09 21:33:15 BEE00.942-1.39 neighbor: Site BEE00.942-1.62; CC=4-2184 155.4600

 

[GTR8000]

I want to amend my previous post where I stated that FULT01 and FULT40 share the same three frequencies with the exception of 151.0625. I should've paid more attention to the licenses, where it would've been readily apparent to me that 151.0625 at FULT40 is actually licensed as FB2 with analog emissions, not P25 emissions.

So in fact FULT01 and FULT40 are both licensed for the same three frequencies when it comes to P25 trunking.

To put a button on this, it turns out that 151.0625 is actually the DCNR repeater at Tuscarora, aka FULT40. I should've definitely picked up on that when looking at the license.

I suppose the fact that FULT40 is an existing DCNR site might make it more likely that a VHF STARNet site is now up there also.