Part 95 rule changes. Finally.

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Traditional TONE "REMOTE CONTROL"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_remote

Tone "REMOTE CONTROL" Component often used for satellite receivers, multicast and simulcast transmitter control and operation.

https://jps.sugarmapleinteractive.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/JPS_DataSheet_SNV-12_12_13_16.pdf

 

[mmckenna]

and it is actually a fully legal operation under 95.1749.

Not yet, at least not under 95.1749.

These proposed rule changes are NOT rules yet. They still have a way to go.

 

[gatekeep]

The proposed rules are much clearer and favorable in that there is no such distinction between audio and control signals. It is simply "operation by remote control ".

Not yet, at least not under 95.1749.

These proposed rule changes are NOT rules yet. They still have a way to go.

Hah yes I know that. I'm saying once these are implemented and adopted.

 

[zikada]

Not yet, at least not under 95.1749.

These proposed rule changes are NOT rules yet. They still have a way to go.

If they vote on them in May and there is a 90 day adoption period then these rules will be effective this upcoming September.

Same thing happened with they eliminated the regulatory fee for GMRS.

 

[Dantian]

The proposed rules are much clearer and favorable in that there is no such distinction between audio and control signals. It is simply "operation by remote control ".

They are favorable, but not favorable to the kind of repeater linking that is done, for example in the Amateur Radio Service. That has never been a feature of GMRS.

The distinction between audio and control is in two places: In the definition for Operate (95.303) and in the prohibition on transmitting messages that are carried by the control link (95.1733(a)(8)).

Operate is limited to controlling the transmitter; and the prohibited communications include conveying messages which are both conveyed by a wireline control link and transmitted by a GMRS station (that is, from a repeater user). In other words, the wireline control link can't be used to send user audio to repeaters.

Any connection of repeaters to the PSTN or "other networks" has to be for the sole purpose of repeater operation, which is defined in the definition section as control (causing the repeater to transmit, continue or stop transmitting). Rule 95.1749 is clear on that point. It is there for a reason. If you want to argue that your nationwide Internet linking of repeaters is for the sole purpose of remotely controlling each one of them, and does not carry the communications they are transmitting, you are welcome to make that argument and hope that the FCC buys it.

[Note added later: Another place in the rules where the FCC distinguishes between communications and control is in the definition of Control Station. Two different things.]

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

They are favorable, but not favorable to the kind of repeater linking that is done, for example in the Amateur Radio Service. That has never been a feature of GMRS.

The distinction between audio and control is in two places: In the definition for Operate (95.303) and in the prohibition on transmitting messages that are carried by the control link (95.1733(a)(8)).

Operate is limited to controlling the transmitter; and the prohibited communications include conveying messages which are both conveyed by a wireline control link and transmitted by a GMRS station (that is, from a repeater user). In other words, the wireline control link can't be used to send user audio to repeaters.

Any connection of repeaters to the PSTN or "other networks" has to be for the sole purpose of repeater operation, which is defined in the definition section as control (causing the repeater to transmit, continue or stop transmitting). Rule 95.1749 is clear on that point. It is there for a reason. If you want to argue that your nationwide Internet linking of repeaters is for the sole purpose of remotely controlling each one of them, and does not carry the communications they are transmitting, you are welcome to make that argument and hope that the FCC buys it.

[Note added later: Another place in the rules where the FCC distinguishes between communications and control is in the definition of Control Station. Two different things.]

Regarding the words in section 95.1733(a)(8) "Messages which are both conveyed by a wireline control link and transmitted by a GMRS station;" Historically this section has also made reference to 95.127, a long deleted section that described methods a station operator would use to prevent unauthorized operation of a station (base or repeater) . If you drill down through the many revisions and history of Part 95 it becomes apparent that 95.1733(a)(8) as now written is probably a mistake. It should have been removed along with 95.127 several revisions ago.

Anyone who is as old as I am can recall a time when the FCC and the Amateur radio community struggled with the concept of "Control Operator" for Ham Repeaters. At one time a means. usually a separate receiver (specifically above 2 meter band) was required for control of the repeater on/off control. This was usually via DTMF command and for obvious reasons it was a frequency or circuit not normally published or used as a voice input for the repeater. The FCC later became confident of repeater automatic control, time out timers and such and the role of the control operator having a dead man switch went away. It is my opinion that 95.127 was intended to describe these methods of a control operator shutting down the repeater.

"Remote Control", is another matter. A repeater can be remotely controlled via an RF Control Station, via wireline with a tone remote control, or by any other technology unless specifically prohibited.

 

[Dantian]

If it was a mistake they would have taken out the restrictions in 95.1749 as well, and they wouldn't have made such careful distinctions between control and communications.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

If it was a mistake they would have taken out the restrictions in 95.1749 as well, and they wouldn't have made such careful distinctions between control and communications.

95.1749 is only a prohibition of telephone interconnect; Read the ENTIRE section.

§ 95.1749 GMRS network connection.
Operation of a GMRS station with a telephone
connection is prohibited, as in § 95.349. GMRS
repeater, base and fixed stations, however, may be
connected to the public switched network or other
networks for the sole purpose of operation by
remote control pursuant to § 95.1745.

 

[Dantian]

The prohibition is not limited to telephone interconnect; it it also prohibits connection to "other networks" -- for any purpose other than "the sole purpose of operation by remote control" (which does not include conveying the content of communications).

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

The prohibition is not limited to telephone interconnect; it it also prohibits connection to "other networks" -- for any purpose other than "the sole purpose of operation by remote control" (which does not include conveying the content of communications).

Huh; Not what I read in 95.1749.

This is a Blue Pill - Red Pill situation. If you don't feel repeater remote control or linking is permitted, just don't do it. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. Take the blue pill and believe whatever you want to believe.

If someone decides to take a red pill and link his repeaters, it is for him and the FCC to figure out. You don't have to use that repeater, there are 7 other repeater pairs and 100 CTCSS and DCSS codes to choose from.

I can tell you this, the FCC has issued exactly zero violations for repeater linking and this has been going on for a long time in one form or another. True, I have searched their database and there is zero, zilch, nothing.

I think I have said enough on this issue for now.

 

[chief21]

The prohibition is not limited to telephone interconnect; it it also prohibits connection to "other networks" -- for any purpose other than "the sole purpose of operation by remote control" (which does not include conveying the content of communications).

Read it again.

The first sentence speaks to the prohibition of telephone interconnection.

Then there is a period (full stop).

The second sentence speaks to the fact that GMRS stations "may be connected to the public switched network or other networks for the sole purpose of operation by remote control pursuant to § 95.1745."

 

[N4GIX]

Read it again.

The first sentence speaks to the prohibition of telephone interconnection.

Then there is a period (full stop).

I see a semi-colon (, not a period...

 

[zikada]

I see a semi-colon (, not a period...

§ 95.1749 GMRS network connection.

Operation of a GMRS station with a telephone connection is prohibited, as in § 95.349. GMRS repeater, base and fixed stations, however, may be connected to the public switched network or other networks for the sole purpose of operation by remote control pursuant to § 95.1745.

No semi-colon.

 

[N4GIX]

§ 95.1749 GMRS network connection.

Operation of a GMRS station with a telephone connection is prohibited, as in § 95.349. GMRS repeater, base and fixed stations, however, may be connected to the public switched network or other networks for the sole purpose of operation by remote control pursuant to § 95.1745.

No semi-colon.

I was commenting on this quote, which as you can plainly see has a semi-colon...

...and in any case, your quoted text has a comma, still not a "period."

Originally Posted by Dantian
The prohibition is not limited to telephone interconnect; it it also prohibits connection to "other networks" -- for any purpose other than "the sole purpose of operation by remote control" (which does not include conveying the content of communications).

 

[zikada]

I was commenting on this quote, which as you can plainly see has a semi-colon...

...and in any case, your quoted text has a comma, still not a "period."

Oh. Well I was under the assumption we were talking about the new proposed language in the Part 95 rules.

Chief21 wasn't wrong in his reading of that rule.

 

[Dantian]

The second sentence speaks to the fact that GMRS stations "may be connected to the public switched network or other networks for the sole purpose of operation by remote control pursuant to § 95.1745."

That's correct. Connection to the PSTN or other networks for purposes other than operation by remote control is prohibited. That's why it says "the sole purpose". Sole purpose means only purpose. Operation by remote control is, in practice, turning the transmitter on or off. That is what it means to "operate" as found in the rules.

No other purpose for connecting the repeater to the PSTN or other networks is allowed. It would open a huge can of worms, so if it is being done it is not being complained about and has not been brought to the attention of the FCC's ever-shrinking enforcement bureau.

 

[zikada]

That's correct. Connection to the PSTN or other networks for purposes other than operation by remote control is prohibited. That's why it says "the sole purpose". Sole purpose means only purpose. Operation by remote control is, in practice, turning the transmitter on or off. That is what it means to "operate" as found in the rules.

No other purpose for connecting the repeater to the PSTN or other networks is allowed. It would open a huge can of worms, so if it is being done it is not being complained about and has not been brought to the attention of the FCC's ever-shrinking enforcement bureau.

Part 95's definition of remote control.

Remote control. Operation of a Personal Radio Services station from a location that is not in the immediate vicinity of the transmitter. Operation of a Personal Radio Services station from any location on the premises, vehicle or craft where the transmitter is located is not considered to be remote control.

Doesn't say anything about turning the transmitter on or off.

 

[AA4TX]

I agree; I think that rule conflict should be formally addressed since many existing GMRS radios are incapable of switching to NB. I think the FCC made an inadvertent error.

This is where "scrivener's error" enter into this type of rule, and an editor's note accompanies the rule for the next 20 years. Then the arguments (sorry, "discussions") ensue. This will end up in fact narrow banding the 462.xxxx interstitial channels, rendering a large portion of existing handhelds violating the text of the rule.

 

[Dantian]

Doesn't say anything about turning the transmitter on or off.

It does indeed. The same rule you are quoting defines Operate as: Control the functioning of a Personal Radio Service station; in particular, cause a Personal Radio Service station to begin, continue or cease transmitting.

This is also consistent with the definition of Control Station in that same rule, which distinguishes between communicating with stations and controlling stations.

 

[zikada]

It does indeed. The same rule you are quoting defines Operate as: Control the functioning of a Personal Radio Service station; in particular, cause a Personal Radio Service station to begin, continue or cease transmitting.

This is also consistent with the definition of Control Station in that same rule, which distinguishes between communicating with stations and controlling stations.

Okay, maybe I'm misunderstanding. If you can use "other networks" for the sole purpose of remote control then how can you not be allowed to "turn on" the transmitter remotely through the internet?