PAWM P25 Motorola X2 TDMA

[twjr80]

On the Plano, Allen, Wylie, Murphy (PAWM) P25 database page, it states that some talkgroups in the system use the Motorola X2 TDMA. Is there any knowledge of what talkgroups use this?

 

[VictorXray]

There aren't any. I fixed the system type back to phase I.

 

[Russell]

It reports as an X2 system. While there are no X2 talkgroups the system type as X2 is accurate. The message, however, is misleading; perhaps the message should read that the system is capable of using X2 talkgroups. The band plan also shows two slot table entries; a further indicator of X2/P2 capability..

Thanks,
Russell

 

[twjr80]

Thanks Victor and Russell for the replies.

 

[Russell]

No problem. We're talking about the message. To be clear, the system is X2 but we've seen no TDMA talkgroups. So the system can be monitored with a P25 Phase I scanner.

VX knows this system better than anybody.

Russell

 

[SCPD]

That answers that, is there any X2 on McKinney as shown in the DB?

 

[Russell]

That answers that, is there any X2 on McKinney as shown in the DB?

No X2 talkgroups, but it is broadcasting X2 and advertising 2 slots on some tables. Frisco is doing the same thing. I figure these systems were all set up by the same guys.

 

[SCPD]

My main concern was having to run out and Buy a PSR-800 because I was missing things. Thanks for the information Russell and All!

 

[TelStrat99]

I'm a 250D owner that got away from scanning when rebanding occured (also no P25 card). This year Santa fixed me up with a new 396XT, so I'm in the process of learning about DMA along with new systems in use in my area. Also a first time FreeSCAN user.

As a trial run, I programmed Wylie PD under P25 Std system using FreeSCAN and typing the freqs / TGs. I'm getting traffic, but it seems a little limited compared to what I remember. Can a 396XT still fully track the Plano Allen Wylie system, or is X2 TDMA (Phase 2?) playing a larger role on this system. FYI - Squelch is set to "2" if that matters. Also its raining here at the moment if that tends to cut down on the traffic stops.

Also, when I tried to import the rest of the system from RR using FreeSCAN, its brings the system type in as P25 Phase 2 (Untrackable). Can I just change the system type to P25 Std (what the 396XT supports) before uploading to the scanner? Will I lose the correct data?

Apologies if I'm not grasping the full P25 concept and how all of terms relate to each other. Any insight would be appreciated.

 

[jasday]

You should be able to change it to p25 standard with no problems. I have the PAWM system as standard and it tracks the system fine. I dont know how big Wylie is, but try to program the other cities in to make sure there wasnt an error in importing.

 

[hiegtx]

I'm a 250D owner that got away from scanning when rebanding occured (also no P25 card). This year Santa fixed me up with a new 396XT, so I'm in the process of learning about DMA along with new systems in use in my area. Also a first time FreeSCAN user.

As a trial run, I programmed Wylie PD under P25 Std system using FreeSCAN and typing the freqs / TGs. I'm getting traffic, but it seems a little limited compared to what I remember. Can a 396XT still fully track the Plano Allen Wylie system, or is X2 TDMA (Phase 2?) playing a larger role on this system. FYI - Squelch is set to "2" if that matters. Also its raining here at the moment if that tends to cut down on the traffic stops.

Also, when I tried to import the rest of the system from RR using FreeSCAN, its brings the system type in as P25 Phase 2 (Untrackable). Can I just change the system type to P25 Std (what the 396XT supports) before uploading to the scanner? Will I lose the correct data?

Apologies if I'm not grasping the full P25 concept and how all of terms relate to each other. Any insight would be appreciated.

Although the PAWM system is capable of using Phase II, at current there are no identified talkgroups using that mode. Those would be identified in the Mode column of the database page with a T, for TDMA capable. At present, everything listed is flagged as D, for a digital talkgroup.

I can monitor PAWM with my BCD396XT, PSR-500, & my Home Patrol. (I could also use the 396T or 996T, but those are used for other systems.) I have no problem scanning the system from my work location, near Central Expwy and Forest Lane. From home, reception is much more spotty, as I live southwest of Downtown Dallas. The new system has less range, it seems, than the old analog system it replaced. I could copy that one fairly well at home. The new one can be hit or miss, depending on where in the house I am, or if I'm using a rooftop antenna.

If you are using the antenna that came with the 396XT, I would definitely suggest that you switch to the Radio Shack 800MHz antenna. You'll get much better signal coverage on PAWN, as well as the other 800MHZ, and 700MHz, trunked systems in the area. You would need to use the SMA->BNC adapter that came with the scanner to use that antenna. That's what I use on my 396XT, that I carry with me.

As jasday noted, use 'MotP25/P25 Standard as the system type in FreeSCAN. You can also try the attached file below. You'll need to extract the Wylie area.996 file inside before you can open it with FreeSCAN. You can do that with WinZip, or a free program such as 7-zip. I imported PAWM, along with a few of the other systems in the area. There are many more that could be added, but I realize you want to concentrate on Wylie for now. You can use the software to load the entire file, or only selected systems. For more on FreeSCAN, see the user guide in the Wiki.

 

[TelStrat99]

Jasday & Hiegtx,

Thanks you both for the valuable input. I've uploaded the file to the scanner and its all working. This gives me a great foundation to work with as several system types are loaded and I can see the settings and architecture of each one. So many bells and whistles compared to my 250D.

Thanks again for you help.

 

[Blaine]

Personally, I think the PAWM system signal at times stinks. I am glad there has been clarification as to any X2 talkgroups, as I thought that might be the reason I was missing transmissions. I live at Parker and 75 and I assume the reason POSSIBLY for the bad signal at times is I am stuck between the "old town" tower at City Hall, and the one off Spring Creek and Chase Oaks. Perhaps it is overloading. I have tried putting the attenuator on to improve to no avail. I am primarily interested in FD/EMS on the system, however I do enjoy listening to Plano PD when they actually transmit (a very good part of their comms is over data terminal). What is really aggravating is when the transmission starts on my PSR500 very strong and sounding good, and then crumbles into a garbled mess and drops out. I use Win500 for my programming, and on the extended settings use 30/48 for the digital settings. ANY suggestions for improvement please speak up!... Thanks...

 

[PiccoIntegra]

I'm at Angel Parkway & Main in Allen, so I'm inside the coverage area for this system. The only time I get good control channel decoding is when the CC is on 853.3000, like it is right now. Any other CC(from my location), and decoding is marginal at best. Some are CC's are worse then others. There are times I'd be lucky to hear the squelch break 10 times in a six hour period.

Since I can only reliably decode the CC when it's on 853.3000, leads me to believe that not all towers are transmitting the data simultaneously during the rotation. I wish I knew more about how these things worked.

If you really want to see, and understand why it is difficult to decode this system, observe the wave form from a disc tapped radio. Do this for each of the CC's in rotation, when they're on the air of course. You'll see some are worse then others too.

It's time for scanner manufacture(s) to start redesigning their product lines. OpAmp/Comparator discriminator slicers aren't cutting it any longer for these complex digital systems.

 

[wiz4769]

This has been talked about for a while, this issue is simulcast digital distortion...basically the scanner is being overloaded, some get better results by going with less antenna, as in old original or even remove it and use a paperclip, no Im not joking...heh

It has really affected how I listen, I pretty much just use the scanner at work in Dallas and if I hear sirens/see smoke, etc and really want to know when at home I may kick it on to try and listen. I feel like I miss alot as I will hear a reply from a question I didnt hear, and I will have ALL turned off but Allen so there is no reason for missing anything.

 

[TelStrat99]

I'm noticing the same thing. I was holding on Wylie PD Dispatch and on two separate instances I heard the dispatcher confirm transmissions from officers that I never heard. Am I experiencing this overload? I guess I'll break out the race track stubby and try that.

 

[hiegtx]

I'm noticing the same thing. I was holding on Wylie PD Dispatch and on two separate instances I heard the dispatcher confirm transmissions from officers that I never heard. Am I experiencing this overload? I guess I'll break out the race track stubby and try that.

Just a thought here-
Is it possible that dispatch could have been acknowledging a message sent via MDT, as opposed to a radio transmission?

However, I also agree that the PAWM system is spotty, even when I am "within range".

 

[hrosee]

It reports as an X2 system. While there are no X2 talkgroups the system type as X2 is accurate. The message, however, is misleading; perhaps the message should read that the system is capable of using X2 talkgroups. The band plan also shows two slot table entries; a further indicator of X2/P2 capability..

Thanks,
Russell

I know this is a very old thread but hope you can help me. I have a PSR-800. It's updated with the current software. When I listen to anything on PAWN it sounds kind of "digital" if that makes since. Anyway can't understand it most of the time. Every once in a while I get a clean transmission. I am using an 800 MHz Ducky type antenna. Is this just a signal strength type of issue or do you think I have something programmed wrong? I am in Richardson so may be too far away for a handheld antenna.

 

[Russell]

This is one of more challenging systems to monitor. I, too, get constant beeps and burps when monitoring this system with a PSR800. It is nothing like monitoring Richardson P25. I have better success using the BCD396XT with the squelch set wide open. Opening the squelch also helps the PSR800, as does less antenna. It is much worse with an outside antenna. Some users of the PSR800 have also reported better performance by backing down the firmware to the previous version (not the latest load), but I haven't tried that.

There is also a report of the reverse problem; a user can clearly monitor Plano, but has trouble with Richardson. I believe he is in the Richardson panhandle area (northeast). It seems to be a strong signal simulcast system issue and is very location dependent. If you're too close to a tower or getting too good a signal, your decode will suffer. Attenuation does not help for me as I will hear nothing.

Bottom line, is you will have to experiment with different things to get good copy. Sometimes, moving your scanner from one location to another will help or hurt ... even a few inches. Yes, frustrating.

Lastly, while this system continues to report as X2 there are no Phase II groups in use on this system and reportedly, will not use X2/P2 in the near future.

Russell

 

[PiccoIntegra]

I've been wondering how the PSR800 would perform on this system. Wishful thinking on my part I guess...

I hope Uniden takes a few field trips with their new prototype to this area, so they know what it is we're dealing with out in the real world.