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PD982 v7 to v9 firmware

SirJ

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Jan 26, 2016
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273
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The City of Los Angeles
A lot of folks have complained the FM is not good when upgrading to v9 firmware. I just want to know if it's worth upgrading ? I use the radio 95% for DMR.
 

AtlanticRadio

Newbie
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Jul 11, 2020
Messages
1
Hello SirJ,

I have upgraded probably 1k terminals to the Hytera i series (v9.0) and have not experienced any issues or complaints after the units were upgraded. If you need any help upgrading your firmware please let me know.
Thank you,
Atlantic Radio
 

dazey77

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
93
What do you think going to 9 will give you?
You will loose TDMA mode (I think the 982 had this?)
You will loose the ability to open analogue squelch (god only knows why they removed this)

I took a X1P from 7 to 8 to 9. 7-8 no issues. 9 I lost the analogue squelch. The x1p never had TDMA mode. It gained the digital buffer that lets you press ptt and talk immediatly, but this has interactions with call confirmation in direct mode so althoguh its a nice gimic, I stopped using it. I also ended up with wierd behavior that was somethig odd in the codeplug. I factory reset the radio, started the codeplug from scratch and it was fine.

Have bricked a 985 updrading, so its not without risk (was on 9 already though)

I would certainly take yours to 8. I am not sure I would go to 9.
 

N4KVE

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PALM BEACH, FLORIDA
Motorola sued Hytera as we all know. Going to FW9 removes the features Motorola claims Hytera stole from them. Why anyone would upgrade to FW 9 is beyond me. I can understand why Hytera would update any radios in their inventory to remove these features so they would be legal to sell. But for any radios already in the hands of an end user, FW9 is a total waste of time. Go to FW8, but avoid FW9 like the virus. Similar to avoiding CPS2.0 with Moto DMR radios.
 

SirJ

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Messages
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The City of Los Angeles
What do you think going to 9 will give you?
You will loose TDMA mode (I think the 982 had this?)
You will loose the ability to open analogue squelch (god only knows why they removed this)

I took a X1P from 7 to 8 to 9. 7-8 no issues. 9 I lost the analogue squelch. The x1p never had TDMA mode. It gained the digital buffer that lets you press ptt and talk immediatly, but this has interactions with call confirmation in direct mode so althoguh its a nice gimic, I stopped using it. I also ended up with wierd behavior that was somethig odd in the codeplug. I factory reset the radio, started the codeplug from scratch and it was fine.

Have bricked a 985 updrading, so its not without risk (was on 9 already though)

I would certainly take yours to 8. I am not sure I would go to 9.
Ok, will only upgrade to V8.. unfortunately I don't have access to V8 FW, just v9 FW.
 

ottosykora

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Jul 26, 2018
Messages
51
Location
Basel, Switzerland
I have upgraded abt 240 handheld, 5 mobile and 10 repeaters to v9 and I am absolutely happy with it. In number of cases it brings new features with it not existing in 8.
The lack of open squelch in analog, well I do not know what motorola did complain here really, probably just some legal joke.
I do use the radios also in analog, but none of the end users needs the open squelch function. The squelch setting goes to level 2 instead. This is enough for normal use.

If I get any of htose radios in future, I will immediately upgrade to 9.
 

n1das

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Nashua, NH
I made the mistake of upgrading to v9 FW in my Hytera portables and a pair of mobiles. I lost TDMA simplex mode and the ability to hold CSQ open on analog channels. I also want the CSQ level set at 1 instead of 2. I would not have done the FW update had I known about this ahead of time. Too late now.

I later had to send a PD982 in for repair and it was required to be updated to the latest V9 FW. The V9 FW in the repaired PD982 had newer V9 FW than my other radios. Given that I was already using V9 FW, I updated my portables and 2 mobiles again to the latest V9 FW so they all have the same FW.

I updated the FW in my PD982 UHF repeaters to fix a noise problem in analog mode and that worked well. My only complaint is I can't set the carrier squelch level any lower than 2. I want the CSQ level set at 1 instead of 2. A setting of 2 instead of 1 works OK but I want to run the squelch level at 1 and have the option of running it wide open (level 0) like how Motorola does it when a repeater is on TPL or DPL.

I'm interested in knowing if there is an engineering mode or test mode that an RD98x repeater can be put into to manually adjust certain parameters. I want to adjust what "2" represents in the CPS for the actual CSQ level in the repeater and adjust it downward. The CPS will show a setting of "2" in the programming but the actual CSQ level in the repeater will be lower. I've done this before in Kenwood radios where I leave the CSQ setting at the default in the CPS and adjust the actual CSQ level in test mode to exactly where I want it.

The ability to hold CSQ open probably was an unintended casualty of the lawsuit and was part of the same code base that had to change. The ability to manually hold CSQ open on an analog channel isn't anything new.

I am (expletived) at Hytera enough that I'm done with Hytera. They won't be getting any more of my business. I'm keeping what Hyteras I have for now and not getting any more Hytera radios in the future. I've had an affinity for Motorola products all along so I am going full Moto in the future.
 
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ottosykora

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Basel, Switzerland
I am surprised what is the need for CSQ in a repeater? I have never used this as all repeaters I met in last decades had subaudio sq or any other means of protecting opening just to some random noise.
My repeaters are all mixed mode, so they operate also in analog beside DMR, but sure I have there subaudio condition at least. Here in Europe, operating a repeater with just CSQ means it will open almost all the time.

As far as TDMA simplex mode, this feature is not really important when you go and test really. If I need more connections, I use Pseudo Trunk. I have this with customer who is very happy with it. Lot of talk about delays in what ever are more of psychologic impact, some people believe they have some delyays or timings where there might be some measurable by sophisticated instruments, but not noticable in real life.

For people who need some kind of mixed mode operation on portables, the mixed mode channels, which were introduced already with 48x series, are now implemented in v9.
In mobiles, I can now change between USB and UART via CPS, this feature was not existing with v8 and one had to buy the radio either eith USB or UART on the accessory connector.

The open CSQ, 'monitor ', well I do not understand what Motorola had to complain about, as this function is older then any motorola radio of all ages. It might be just the way how the noise or better no noise was detected in the software.
However this function was always used and named(!) as for adjusting the volume knob. Have never seen any customers having any other use for it.
 

n1das

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I am surprised what is the need for CSQ in a repeater? I have never used this as all repeaters I met in last decades had subaudio sq or any other means of protecting opening just to some random noise.

My repeaters are all mixed mode, so they operate also in analog beside DMR, but sure I have there subaudio condition at least. Here in Europe, operating a repeater with just CSQ means it will open almost all the time.
My two RD982 repeaters are running CTCSS and CDCSS when in analog mode. One repeater is operating in mixed digital/analog mode and the other is operating analog only. They are NOT running with just CSQ when in analog mode.

The CSQ level does affect operation with CTCSS or CDCSS programmed. On the RD98x repeaters, CTCSS/CDCSS decode AND carrier squelch opening are required in order to key the repeater and pass the repeat audio. This is often referred to as AND squelch. Both CTCSS/CDCSS decode and CSQ open have to be valid in order to unsquelch and key the repeater. That's why it's important to be able to set the CSQ level properly. The repeater V9 FW forces the minimum level to be "2" when I want it set at "1" like I have in the past with older FW. It works OK at 2 but I really want it set to 1 instead.

The AND-squelch behavior is the same in the portables (PD78x, PD98x, X1p) and mobiles (MD78x). Both CTCSS/CDCSS decode AND carrier squelch opening are required in order to unsquelch the receiver on an analog channel with CTCSS or CDCSS programmed on receive.

With Motorola repeaters, operating in analog mode with TPL or DPL operates with the CSQ level set to 0 (wide open). TPL = Motorola Tone Private Line, aka CTCSS. DPL = Motorola Digital Private Line, aka CDCSS, aka DCS. In a Motorola repeater, the TPL/DPL decode function is the only thing squelching the receiver in the repeater. I actually prefer it this way because the TPL/DPL decoding threshold approaches the theoretical sensitivity of the receiver and without CSQ getting in the way because it's wide open all the time. With repeater V9 FW in the RD98x, the minimum CSQ level is 2 and I can't set the CSQ level to 0 (open) to operate like Motorola repeaters on TPL/DPL if I want to. I used to be able to do this with older FW.

As far as TDMA simplex mode, this feature is not really important when you go and test really. If I need more connections, I use Pseudo Trunk. I have this with customer who is very happy with it. Lot of talk about delays in what ever are more of psychologic impact, some people believe they have some delyays or timings where there might be some measurable by sophisticated instruments, but not noticable in real life.

For people who need some kind of mixed mode operation on portables, the mixed mode channels, which were introduced already with 48x series, are now implemented in v9.
In mobiles, I can now change between USB and UART via CPS, this feature was not existing with v8 and one had to buy the radio either eith USB or UART on the accessory connector.
I previously had the TDMA simplex feature and didn't want to lose it.

The open CSQ, 'monitor ', well I do not understand what Motorola had to complain about, as this function is older then any motorola radio of all ages. It might be just the way how the noise or better no noise was detected in the software.
However this function was always used and named(!) as for adjusting the volume knob. Have never seen any customers having any other use for it.
I suspect being able to manually hold CSQ open on an analog channel was an unintended casualty due to code changes required to take away features as part of the lawsuit settlement.

Anyhow, I'm done with Hytera and going full Moto in the future.
 
Last edited:
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Apr 30, 2008
Messages
815
I have analog squelch / CSQ working in my PD982i running 9.02.01.013 which is the latest version I find on the dealer portal. I did this quick video today to show what I see.
Let me know if I'm missing the point here.

I did notice that a button can't be momentary with a short push and permanent with a long push, but one button can be momentary and a 2nd permanent as I show in the video.
 

dazey77

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
93
I think your missing the point. We want to see you lift the squelch and hear the noise underneath with no signal. Pre-9 you can disable/lift the squelch. Post 9 that option doesnt even exist in the CPS (at least in the versions of 9 I have run). Its useful to be able to hear the unsquelched radio many times.
 
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Now I see said the blind man, I guess I never set mine to hear squelch noise. That is a nice feature for setting volume but a PITA if you want to listen for co channel users.
 
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RRR

What?
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Very simple, right when Motorola got the judgement over Hytera, Hytera releases a "New firmware" that -had- to be installed, or you will lose Hytera support. Should have been very obvious you weren't getting improved features with that one.

Shame they couldn't all play well, they both have their good features.
 
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Back when I was at Bearcom in GR-1225 repeater days I use to set the squelch under tone setting to break about .3uV (I wasn't into dBm back then) because the rcvr was so sensitive it would have squelch tail on weak signals. The setting was a 0-15 gas gauge so it had to be set with a signal generator, the value could vary by a few numbers from one radio to the next.

I asked the tech in the Garland shop to set the repeaters that way for the Bonnaroo festival we were going to work since I wasn't going to that event. I got a call from the on site guys saying they had very poor coverage and the tech who came from the Atlanta shop couldn't figure out the problem.

I flew in the next day and after a few minutes figured out it took about 7-8 uV to open the rcvr. The tech had set the squelch setting to 15 on the gauge instead of using the method I requested. We had 24 repeaters scattered across the compound, one in each end of the office trailers. I had to haul the IFR 1200 to each one to fix the problem.
 
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n1das

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Nashua, NH
With 9.02.xx.xx FW, can you set the CSQ level in the CPS to lower than 2? With pre-9 FW, the CSQ adjustment range in the CPS was 0 (open) through 9 (tight). With V9 FW, you can't set it any lower than 2. Is this still the case with 9.02.xx.xxx FW? It works OK at 2 but I really want the CSQ set at 1 like I used to have with pre-9 FW.

What do the release notes say about 9.02 FW? I'm curious about what was changed/fixed/added/removed. I'm debating whether to update my Hytera radios to 9.02 or leave them where they are at (9.00.008.xx.?) because I'm done with Hytera going forward. No more Hyteras for me. I'm transitioning toward Motorola and going full Moto eventually.
 
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ottosykora

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Jul 26, 2018
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Basel, Switzerland
Well as far as I can se it all is from 2 to 9. The question is maybe what exactly means the level. What in Terms of sensitivity?
Or how to measure and compare what exactly is going on.
I checked now one of my repeaters (VHF however) the repeater goes open with subaudio sql at 122dbm and transmitts what ever it receives this way. it will however tend to go off with 123dbm as the tranmitter pissing slightly into the rx path which is normal.
I did not test so far with carrier SQL, as this Operation makes anyway no sense in repeater.
I might make other test with carrier SQL later, but I have to remove the subaudio SQL from the cp first.


it looks like all my mobile radios and repeaters have csq set to 'normal' and this again is set to level 3, what ever it means
 
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n1das

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Feb 17, 2003
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Nashua, NH
Well as far as I can se it all is from 2 to 9. The question is maybe what exactly means the level. What in Terms of sensitivity?
Or how to measure and compare what exactly is going on.
I checked now one of my repeaters (VHF however) the repeater goes open with subaudio sql at 122dbm and transmitts what ever it receives this way. it will however tend to go off with 123dbm as the tranmitter pissing slightly into the rx path which is normal.
I did not test so far with carrier SQL, as this Operation makes anyway no sense in repeater.
I might make other test with carrier SQL later, but I have to remove the subaudio SQL from the cp first.


it looks like all my mobile radios and repeaters have csq set to 'normal' and this again is set to level 3, what ever it means
You can adjust what "Open", "Normal", and "Tight" represent in the Common menu in the CPS. Each setting is adjustable from 2 to 9 with V9 FW. With pre-9 FW, it was adjustable from 0 (open) to 9 (tight).

On an individual channel, you select Open, Normal, or Tight from the menu for a CSQ setting.

Prior to V9 FW, the CSQ level could be adjusted from 0 (open) to 9 (tight). The 0 and 1 settings went away with V9 FW. The lowest you can set CSQ is at 2 with V9 FW. I want it set at 1 to be closer to the CTCSS decode threshold. I am (insert favorite expletive) that this was taken away with V9 FW.

You don't need to put your repeater on CSQ to test what's going on. You can leave it on CTCSS and adjust the CSQ level only. Try leaving it on CTCSS and crank the CSQ setting on the channel all the way up to 9 and repeat your weak signal test. You will find that it will now take a much stronger signal w/CTCSS into the repeater for it to open the receiver and key the repeater. A weak signal into the repeater can be strong enough for reliable CTCSS decoding but still not strong enough to open CSQ. In this particular case, the receiver won't open and key the transmitter. Decoding CTCSS alone is not enough. CSQ also has to open. These two functions are AND'd together when the receiver is on CTCSS. Both CTCSS decode AND CSQ open have to be valid for a signal with CTCSS to unsquelch the receiver and key the repeater.

The default on Motorola repeaters is CSQ is totally out of the picture when on CTCSS. This is equivalent to CSQ being held wide open all the time. The CTCSS decoder is the only thing squelching the receiver. The repeater's squelch behavior and performance while on CTCSS becomes solely a function of the CTCSS decoder's characteristics. There is no (tight) CSQ getting in the way in this case. Hytera took away the ability to run CSQ at 0 (open) with V9 FW and behave like Motorola repeaters while on CTCSS (or CDCSS).
 
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ottosykora

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as far as I remamber from some comments earlier, it was removed due to 'the way it was implemented' . While in old times csq was done just by RC circuit, today it is probably overcomplex digital filtering. Probably the digital filter routine had to be changed or so.

I would have to measure what means csq 2 and what 3 or 5 etc.

On my handhelds, as far as they have analog channels, I have low and this set to 2. In handhelds it does not matter anyway, it was only used for 'adjusting the volume' before.

I just tested one repeater I have direct access to (others are where repeaters are usualy) and while there is level 3 in reality, the repeater opens at 122dbm, for persistent operation I would say it will become some 119dbm.
By this I mean that even there is setting more then 1, the repeater opens at its capability of its receiver. It is passing via duplexer and will also get some noise from tx during operation.
What I mean, it is that all is just within any accuracy of a radio test equipment. I think the difference between level 1 and 2 is not really mesurable and will not affect any real operation.
I could not find quickly any info on what the level number means. To me it looks like level 3 or level 1, will have same result when correct subaudio arrives.
 

radioopperator

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Apr 15, 2019
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95
Anyone linking any 982 units? I have like 4 linked in DMR with encryption seem to get some loss of sync? I RX a lot of data not audio? Wonder if its the jitter setting or something else? Any one know what is causing this? They all have 9X firmware. Haven't tried to listen in linked analog mode yet.
 
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