Pequannock Police DMR

[K2NEC]

They are and still will be. All they are doing is keeping unauthorized radios from using their system. You'll still be able to listen using a scanner or an sdr.

The only people this will affect are people using Motorola radios to listen.

BTW, a console can only disable a radio that has Radio Disable enabled. Chances are most people using a Motorola radio to listen haven't enabled Radio Disable.

If it's a jammer chances are they won't spend $300 on a radio then have to invest in software. They will go for the cheapest possible radio to achieve their goal. Like the guy jamming NYPD a couple of years ago. Could he have spent $200+ on a Kenwood, Icom, or Motorola? Yes But instead he bought a $25 Baofeng because it did what he needed it to. Then they would have to know how to program the radio and specifically select the radio disable. No one was using their system on analog and no one will be using their system on digital and it doesn't only effect Motorola it impacts all DMR radio's as they will not be able to receive the signal due to lack of RAS key.

 

[craneoperator99]

I mean they haven't had issues with jammers on their repeaters

Sorry, I figured that out right after I posted! My bad!! However, I would consider that in the last several years the nearby town of Parsippany has, and on their FD channels no less.

 

[mikewazowski]

If it's a jammer chances are they won't spend $300 on a radio then have to invest in software. They will go for the cheapest possible radio to achieve their goal. Like the guy jamming NYPD a couple of years ago. Could he have spent $200+ on a Kenwood, Icom, or Motorola? Yes But instead he bought a $25 Baofeng because it did what he needed it to. Then they would have to know how to program the radio and specifically select the radio disable. No one was using their system on analog and no one will be using their system on digital and it doesn't only effect Motorola it impacts all DMR radio's as they will not be able to receive the signal due to lack of RAS key.

Do you leave the door to your house unlocked at night? Bet ya don't.

Nothing wrong with securing their system against possible unauthorized users. Note that I have never said anything about jammers.

As far as I can tell, the only person getting upset is the guy who can't use his Motorola radio to listen. Why don't you go to down to your local government and see if they'll remove the RAS so you can listen?

Anyways, I'm out. Most times we debate a fire department going encrypted. Don't think we've ever had anybody complain about a fire department enabling RAS on their repeater.

 

[K2NEC]

Do you leave the door to your house unlocked at night? Bet ya don't.

Nothing wrong with securing their system against possible unauthorized users. Note that I have never said anything about jammers.

As far as I can tell, the only person getting upset is the guy who can't use his Motorola radio to listen. Why don't you go to down to your local government and see if they'll remove the RAS so you can listen?

Anyways, I'm out. Most times we debate a fire department going encrypted. Don't think we've ever had anybody complain about a fire department enabling RAS on their repeater.

Yes because not everyone has $400 to spend on a scanner when I have a radio that will do the same if it had no RAS. And again not only Motorola radio's are affected by RAS. It is a good debate and it's always interesting seeing other's opinions.

 

[craneoperator99]

Talkgroup 3112 is also active.

 

[rangers38]

to program the new system in a BCD536HP the 453.025 frequency has to be programmed as a DMR One Frequency? and the service settings set to multi-dispatch?

 

[RocketNJ]

Pequannock had quite a few coverage issues on analog. I believe RocketNJ is correct on the location of the repeaters, because they always had big time portable issues in the southern portion of the town. Normally, they just switched over to T/A, but for response and talking to dispatch T/A just didn't cut it. Obviously, these issues could have been fixed with analog as well, but digital is the "thing" now, so that's where they went. The big question when it comes to the repeaters is, will FD actually benefit in range? PD seems to be pretty happy. And I sure hope they don't attempt to use DMR T/A for fireground ops!! That would be just as bad, if not worse than using normal DMR simplex on 453.075.

I bet the coverage in the basement of Gerace school off the PD's DMR repeater is going to be poor for the FD guys. PD never go in basements so they would not notice the issues as much as FD. Can you say boiler and dryer fires?

Still scratching my head. This is a classic example of the uninformed being lead by the greedy dealer down the wrong path.

And my tax dollars helped fund it :-((

 

[RocketNJ]

Why in the world does FD need RAS?? It is just completely pointless and ruins the hobby for everyone that has a radio. So now I either have to listen to it online or by buying a $400 scanner.

I fixed the issue for $$40.

RTL-SDR dongle, SDR#, antenna, and DSD+ Fast Lane. Works 100% decoding. More accurate decoding than the 436, 536, TRX-1, and TRX-2 I have tried. Next is to have the PC stream it live and listen on my cell or PC at work.

The problem with using a scanner is they do not decode RAS 100%. They are not bad but more like 85 - 90%. Most of the time it is during the initial call on the repeater. And this is with the scanner locked on the channel and NOT in scan. Check out the Uniden Tech support and Whistler groups. Others will confirm scanners are not good at decoding RAS. They need to listen to the bitstream and when it sees CRC errors it then say "that's RAS" and decodes. This leads to missed calls due to the delay.

 

[Phelanhome]

I have a couple of comments.

The radios were bought as part of a $300,000 upgrade to the older radios that Pequannock was using. The same radios that PD uses are the same type radios FD is using.So radios are RAS protected.

To now listen to fire calls I have programmed my one of my scanners for just 453.02500. One analog only scanning and one only digital scanning. Works perfect. Tested yesterday. If you have an analog scanner with 453.02500 programmed into it you will hear Fire and First Aid get dispatch. Afterwards you will not hear First Aid. They talk on PD band when in service. It has been this way for years. When fire talks and you are listening on an analog scanner you will here a buzz saw sound and will want to turn off the radio. Without digital MR you will not hear correctly.

I do not understand why people keep saying they do not receive all RAS transmissions. I have no problems with it on my scanners. 996PS, 436HR and 536HP. I would ask how you know you are not receiving all the transmissions?

Lastly, Pequannock only uses two repeaters. One at town hall in the attic the other on the North Jersey Tower.

 

[Alarmguy]

I have a couple of comments.

The radios were bought as part of a $300,000 upgrade to the older radios that Pequannock was using. The same radios that PD uses are the same type radios FD is using.So radios are RAS protected.

To now listen to fire calls I have programmed my one of my scanners for just 453.02500. One analog only scanning and one only digital scanning. Works perfect. Tested yesterday. If you have an analog scanner with 453.02500 programmed into it you will hear Fire and First Aid get dispatch. Afterwards you will not hear First Aid. They talk on PD band when in service. It has been this way for years. When fire talks and you are listening on an analog scanner you will here a buzz saw sound and will want to turn off the radio. Without digital MR you will not hear correctly.

I do not understand why people keep saying they do not receive all RAS transmissions. I have no problems with it on my scanners. 996PS, 436HR and 536HP. I would ask how you know you are not receiving all the transmissions?

Lastly, Pequannock only uses two repeaters. One at town hall in the attic the other on the North Jersey Tower.

North Jersey Tower is located where? Will the SDR setup work on P25 phase 1 trunked?

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[K2NEC]

I do not understand why people keep saying they do not receive all RAS transmissions. I have no problems with it on my scanners. 996PS, 436HR and 536HP. I would ask how you know you are not receiving all the transmissions?

Yes scanners decode the information but not all of it due to RAS. With RAS you need a key to listen to the transmissions and scanners are bypassing that system however it isn't perfectly seamless that is why they don't get all transmissions.

 

[K2NEC]

I fixed the issue for $$40.

RTL-SDR dongle, SDR#, antenna, and DSD+ Fast Lane. Works 100% decoding. More accurate decoding than the 436, 536, TRX-1, and TRX-2 I have tried. Next is to have the PC stream it live and listen on my cell or PC at work.

Ill try that

 

[NParkNJ]

To be personally honest, I’m ok with hearing only dispatch, and their end of call. For me anyway, that’s good enough.


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[craneoperator99]

I bet the coverage in the basement of Gerace school off the PD's DMR repeater is going to be poor for the FD guys. PD never go in basements so they would not notice the issues as much as FD. Can you say boiler and dryer fires?

Still scratching my head. This is a classic example of the uninformed being lead by the greedy dealer down the wrong path.

And my tax dollars helped fund it :-((

Good point. It didn't sound like they did extensive testing, either.

I fixed the issue for $$40.

RTL-SDR dongle, SDR#, antenna, and DSD+ Fast Lane. Works 100% decoding. More accurate decoding than the 436, 536, TRX-1, and TRX-2 I have tried. Next is to have the PC stream it live and listen on my cell or PC at work.

The problem with using a scanner is they do not decode RAS 100%. They are not bad but more like 85 - 90%. Most of the time it is during the initial call on the repeater. And this is with the scanner locked on the channel and NOT in scan. Check out the Uniden Tech support and Whistler groups. Others will confirm scanners are not good at decoding RAS. They need to listen to the bitstream and when it sees CRC errors it then say "that's RAS" and decodes. This leads to missed calls due to the delay.

How does the DSD+ accomplish decode 100% decode? I don't doubt that it does, but I'm just wondering how it instantly decodes without first having to recognize that the repeater is using RAS.

 

[W2SJW]

Good point. It didn't sound like they did extensive testing, either.


How does the DSD+ accomplish decode 100% decode? I don't doubt that it does, but I'm just wondering how it instantly decodes without first having to recognize that the repeater is using RAS.

Instantly. I'm using the latest FastLane as well, and it's amazing how well it works when the signal is strong enough (I feed DSD+ direct from FMP24 via TCP).

 

[Phelanhome]

Could someone please explain how they know they are missing transmission when a system is protected by RAS?

 

[APX8000]

I’m sure if you parked on the frequency CSQ you would know. It would become extremely annoying though.


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[Phelanhome]

Because I have a vested interest in Pequannock I am parked on PD and FD/EMS. I can assure you that I am not missing anything due to RAS.

 

[NotATechGuy]

How does the DSD+ accomplish decode 100% decode? I don't doubt that it does, but I'm just wondering how it instantly decodes without first having to recognize that the repeater is using RAS.

Put simply, DSD+ ignores the section of the header where RAS lives and goes on to decode the audio.

 

[RocketNJ]

I have a couple of comments.


I do not understand why people keep saying they do not receive all RAS transmissions. I have no problems with it on my scanners. 996PS, 436HR and 536HP. I would ask how you know you are not receiving all the transmissions?
.

Running DSD+ shows all traffic on both timeslots of the repeater, whether voice or data. It also allows decoding the voice so you can monitor either TS 1 or TS 2.

Using DSD+ as compared to the four scanners I had, and I did have all four, DSD+ would decode more calls than the scanners. About half the time you miss the first transmission in a series of transmissions. Example - a car is doing traffic stop on Rt 23 the scanner would start by hearing "go ahead" from the dispatch but not hear the first transmission.

What antenna are you using on the DMR scanner? Have you tried from a portable? Where I am located in town 3.5 air miles from the Pompton Lks tower. Terrain is flat so not hills to block signal.

I will monitor your feed from the office today and listen to what I hear, then tonight I can monitor both DSD+ and your feed to compare.