Pequannock Police DMR

[RadioDitch]

Pequannock uses RAS - if I understand the way that works on a genuine Motorola radio, the radio won't decode the audio properly unless you have the RAS key programmed.

Depends on the RAS validation method. If the system is programmed with RAS Key Authentication, then yes, it would prohibit the decode of the audio by any receiver without the RAS Key entered. If Radio Identification Range alone is used, then any radio would be able to receive but transmit would be prohibited unless the radio in question was within the specified range set to the repeater. The two can be used together. But RAS is not intended to be a privacy feature. Basic Privacy, Enhanced Privacy, or AES is intended for that.

 

[W2SJW]

Can you recommend a inexpensive scanner that will hear DMR systems that are using RAS and not using RAS. I'm new to DMR and have searched around for towns using DMR that are within my range
and have found Rockaway and Hopatcong. From what I read Rockaway does not use RAS and Hopatcong does. One that receives slot1 and slot2 also as Hopatcong says both in database. I've read a Tytera MD380/390 does not do RAS. How about a RadioDity GD-77? My neighbor has a Whistle TRX-1 I could borrow that he says receives DMR. If I borrowed it would I program 2 conventional entries with same frequency one for slot1 and one for slot2? Thanks.

No radio other than a Motorola will work, and that won't work properly without the RAS key anyway.

Inexpensive+Scanner+DMR does not exist. The Whistler models will have the better performance on RAS DMR channels over the Uniden models.

 

[scan1000]

Thanks for info and I see inexpensive ones are out. I'm going to borrow Whistler TRX1 but I just read the TRX1 has a bug that only receives Slot2 when slot1 is active. So that translates to missing a big % of traffic. Is there a way around this or can you recommend a Uniden model that would pick up all the traffic slot1 and slot2.

 

[ka2aradio]

Can you recommend a inexpensive scanner that will hear DMR systems that are using RAS and not using RAS. I'm new to DMR and have searched around for towns using DMR that are within my range
and have found Rockaway and Hopatcong. From what I read Rockaway does not use RAS and Hopatcong does. One that receives slot1 and slot2 also as Hopatcong says both in database. I've read a Tytera MD380/390 does not do RAS. How about a RadioDity GD-77? My neighbor has a Whistle TRX-1 I could borrow that he says receives DMR. If I borrowed it would I program 2 conventional entries with same frequency one for slot1 and one for slot2? Thanks.

As far as I know only the higher priced scanners that are DMR capable will decode RAS. Mototrbo radios allow for the RAS key entry if you know it. TYT and other Chinese radios cannot listen to a RAS enabled system.

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[rangers38]

You have to manually enter each Pequannock frequency into Sentinel as a DMR One Channel. Sentinel will add it as a conventional frequency, which doesn't work properly. Uniden has yet to fix that. Also helps if you've purchased and validated the DMR firmware upgrade.

That stinks that Uniden has not fixed this issue, especially having to use the Sentinel on the 536HP. I played around installing the DMR frequencies installing them as a OFT. I don't see an option for slot or TGID?, just Color Code

 

[rr60]

Can you recommend a inexpensive scanner that will hear DMR systems that are using RAS and not using RAS. I'm new to DMR and have searched around for towns using DMR that are within my range
and have found Rockaway and Hopatcong. From what I read Rockaway does not use RAS and Hopatcong does. One that receives slot1 and slot2 also as Hopatcong says both in database. I've read a Tytera MD380/390 does not do RAS. How about a RadioDity GD-77? My neighbor has a Whistle TRX-1 I could borrow that he says receives DMR. If I borrowed it would I program 2 conventional entries with same frequency one for slot1 and one for slot2? Thanks.

To further clarify the Uniden 536 436 with upgrade purchased (both of which I have) most certainly will decode MotoTRBO systems that have RAS enabled. Of course it must not be encrypted. The Uniden's however display differently when searching and decoding DMR( RAS non RAS) but the audio differences are not noticeable. Lastly you must have enough signal strength present with no co-channel and you must know how to use the scanner. Good luck!

 

[W2SJW]

Guys,

Just an FYI, merged the 2 threads regarding this topic into the one with the older creation date...

 

[scan1000]

To further clarify the Uniden 536 436 with upgrade purchased (both of which I have) most certainly will decode MotoTRBO systems that have RAS enabled. Of course it must not be encrypted. The Uniden's however display differently when searching and decoding DMR( RAS non RAS) but the audio differences are not noticeable. Lastly you must have enough signal strength present with no co-channel and you must know how to use the scanner. Good luck!

Thanks for the info. I borrowed a Whistler TRX1 tonight and programmed in 2 NXDN's and 2 DMR's with EZ Scan software for Whistler. All 4 hearing good and it took about 1/2 hour to download and program them. Been listening for about 30 minutes so far and been only hearing transmissions on SLOT1 for two DMR's so far. I had read the TRX1 has a bug and only receives SLOT2 when SLOT1 is active which translates to me no SLOT2. Anyone have any thoughts on info on that. Also any info from anyone that has programmed their TRX1 on DMR that receives SLOT2 when SLOT1 is not active when both slots use the same frequency and CC would be appreciated. I used the * wildcard for TG and slot. If this bug is true sounds better to buy a Uniden 536 or 436 as R60 replied to me they work good.

 

[RocketNJ]

I am using TRX2 I just received today for listening to Pequannock PD. Still only 70 ~ 80% decode compared to DSD+ Fast Lane.

Both Uniden 436/536 and Whistler TRX1/TRX2 have issues decoding RAS. They are slow to start the decoding.

Not sure if they will ever get it fixed.

Over the weekend I will try to get my Pequannock feed up and running using DSD+. This way the guys with scanners can compare decoding of Pequannock to see there IS an issue with the scanners and RAS.

 

[scan1000]

Thanks Rocket I'll add Pequannock. I'm hearing stuff on my DMR. Just no slot 2 at all. Can you tell if I'm programming correctly. Say the frequency is 123.4500 and CC is 8 and they use slot 1 and slot 2.
Should I have 1 conventional DMR entry with CC=8 TG=* and SL=* That is the frequency is the same for both slots. I read TRX1 has bug conventional here's link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyYxJvWO1KY Thanks.

 

[RadioDitch]

I am using TRX2 I just received today for listening to Pequannock PD. Still only 70 ~ 80% decode compared to DSD+ Fast Lane.

Both Uniden 436/536 and Whistler TRX1/TRX2 have issues decoding RAS. They are slow to start the decoding.

The Unidens are better than the Whistlers though. Whistler seems to have an issue with anything non P25 in general. The TRX's stutter slightly on DMR, and definitely on NXDN and DMR w/ RAS.

 

[rangers38]

I am using TRX2 I just received today for listening to Pequannock PD. Still only 70 ~ 80% decode compared to DSD+ Fast Lane.

Both Uniden 436/536 and Whistler TRX1/TRX2 have issues decoding RAS. They are slow to start the decoding.

Not sure if they will ever get it fixed.

Over the weekend I will try to get my Pequannock feed up and running using DSD+. This way the guys with scanners can compare decoding of Pequannock to see there IS an issue with the scanners and RAS.

RocketNJ

I have a BCD536HP. I have Pequannock PD configured in a system. Conventional, OFT, TGID's Slots, Different variations. Some configured with TGID' no slots, Some just CC. I have compared my reception with listening to the live Pequannock feed that has the DSD+ Fast Lane. I get nothing. I see that I get 3 bars of reception, sometimes it goes to up.The DMR sometimes flashes in the display, but no transmissions received. I guess the RAS is the reason. However another member in this thread that lives in the town claims he has no problems receiving RAS. Is anyone else able to receive? with just a scanner without other items attached? I live very close to the site and have an external antenna as well.

 

[RocketNJ]

My feed is Pequannock PD and Fire and currently being fed with a TRX-2 scanner locked onto the PD 1 Dispatch frequency and timeslot. I have been bringing it up and down recently as I lost Internet last Friday in the storm and now am having intermittent power issues since yesterday's storm (wires got ripped off side of house).

I find if the scanner is locked on a single freq/single TG/Slot then the decode is better than when scanning. With RAS you almost always miss the dispatcher's "10-4" response with a scanner. Just the nature of the beast.

 

[rangers38]

Rocket,

I was listening to your feed and could hear the Police radio traffic from your feed. I had my channel locked on the PD Frequency. I was not getting anything. I programmed several channels for the PD in different variations. Some with TG some with just CC some with all the settings. Really can't say I hear anything. This morning the FD went out. I didn't hear them on 453.025 either. Not sure why?

 

[APX8000]

A friend of mine contacted me regarding picking up a UHF-H split Kenwood NX-5300. He lives in Kinnelon, monitors them and Pequannock and is a ham radio guy but does more PD monitoring than ham rag chewing. I was steering him towards the 5300 due to its ability to do analog, P25 and DMR (or NXDN) all in one. I figured with the limited amount of talking/listening to ham, he’d be better off with the higher spilt to cover more PD’s in the 450-520 band and Kenwoods are usually good down to 440-441 without degradation or firmware hacking with factory software.

After following this thread, I can honestly say I’m pushing him in a different direction due to RAS and it making his listening of PD’s using DMR in ANY radio virtually useless.



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[slingshot202]

I guess if using a two-way radio this is a problem, I seem to do OK with the BCD536 scanner from Uniden. However, I thought also had them on my BCD325p2, but I may have hosed that bad boy up when I reprogrammed it via FreeScan.

From what I have seen on the other units you can only get them programmed through ProScan to work on the scanner.

I have an Anyone 868 DMR capable radio and I hear Rockaway Twsp PD/FD with no issues, but this Pequannock one, I see the traffic, but it does not appear to decode the audio.

 

[RocketNJ]

You will not hear any traffic listening to Pequannock (or other agency using RAS) when using a commercial radio (Chinese stuff included).

Best decode for RAS is DSD+. The Whistler TRX-2 does OK if set to a specific frequency/talkgroup/slot and it is not scanning. If I try to scan both PD and FD it WILL miss transmissions.

Scanners have to listen long enough for the scanner to detect the voice call and then ignore the packet header which has "corrupt" CRCs (at least the scanner thinks they are corrupt).

My feed has been up and down as I have power issues here. Power lines are down but still live and under a LOT of snow. The neutral wire seems to be compromised so I am leaving electronics unplugged due to voltage surges when the refrigerator kicks on.

For those that are unaware of what happens when you lose the neutral - if one half of the 240 coming into the house (neutral to leg 1) has more load then the other half (neutral to leg 2) you will see the side with the heavier load dip in voltage and the other side go up (leg to leg remains at 240 volts). I've been seeing spikes on one side as high as 135 volts so only running the bare bones necessity until whatever year Just Crappy Power & Light gets out here. Not going to power down the heating system or 'fridge. If they burn up, I will add it to the list of damaged stuff I have so far. The big concern is to not leave them on when unattended as it can start a house fire.

 

[W2SJW]

until whatever year Just Crappy Power & Light gets out here.

That's the first time I've heard anyone come up with a snarky alternate meaning for them!

PSE&G is 'Park, Sleep, Eat & Go home'... :wink:

 

[Alarmguy]

You will not hear any traffic listening to Pequannock (or other agency using RAS) when using a commercial radio (Chinese stuff included).

Best decode for RAS is DSD+. The Whistler TRX-2 does OK if set to a specific frequency/talkgroup/slot and it is not scanning. If I try to scan both PD and FD it WILL miss transmissions.

Scanners have to listen long enough for the scanner to detect the voice call and then ignore the packet header which has "corrupt" CRCs (at least the scanner thinks they are corrupt).

My feed has been up and down as I have power issues here. Power lines are down but still live and under a LOT of snow. The neutral wire seems to be compromised so I am leaving electronics unplugged due to voltage surges when the refrigerator kicks on.

For those that are unaware of what happens when you lose the neutral - if one half of the 240 coming into the house (neutral to leg 1) has more load then the other half (neutral to leg 2) you will see the side with the heavier load dip in voltage and the other side go up (leg to leg remains at 240 volts). I've been seeing spikes on one side as high as 135 volts so only running the bare bones necessity until whatever year Just Crappy Power & Light gets out here. Not going to power down the heating system or 'fridge. If they burn up, I will add it to the list of damaged stuff I have so far. The big concern is to not leave them on when unattended as it can start a house fire.

Ouch encountered that many times when I was an electrician. I've seen a loose neutral put voltages as high as 170 volts! How is your ground to the water meter or ground rods? Those are "supposed" to take over when the neutral is out.

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[Alarmguy]

That's the first time I've heard anyone come up with a snarky alternate meaning for them!

PSE&G is 'Park, Sleep, Eat & Go home'... :wink:

IBEW "I Believe In Easy Work"

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