Petitions for Reconsideration of Part 95 Personal Radio Services Rules Report and Order

[Duckford]

How does GMRS do over hills compared to CB ? I realize the power levels for GMRS are potentially higher.

One of the reasons I use CB for non Ham radio work over GMRS is the fact that 11 meter simplex can cut through trees and obstacles very well, and 70cm doesn't. I live in woody hills, and the few tests I've done between CB and 70cm Ham have proven this point where I live, for practical places and purposes that I can use. 4 watt (all my legal rigs seem to show 5 watts carrier on my meters) AM and a 102" whip on my big American luxury cars outshot 70cm Ham using 50 watts and a 62" big dual band whip on the same car to several locations in the hills and woods in my area.

High HF like 10 meters and 11 meters used for LOS, when not being ruined by massive skip, is that it can kick UHF's head in for simplex, at least when it comes to difficult terrain and obstacles.

ERP is important, but it can't overcome everything. There are things that 5 watts of HF can do that 100 watts of VHF can't do, or will come out neck and neck. HF for local communications sucks bad during the solar cycle because of skip; but UHF for local communications can suck bad and require repeaters or even repeater networks to function in some places. No wonder why people love VHF.

So, I'm at a crossroads myself at this point. I like CB for local communications with friends and family and emergency, but the coming solar cycle can ruin it. UHF simplex won't work in my neck of the woods, and I'm not going to buy GMRS equipment and setup repeaters for it.

Indeed, maybe FM being added to CB might be the big cure I'm looking for. Because GMRS won't, in my specific individual case and circumstances.

 

[FiveFilter]

Would an FM 11 meter CB band be less prone to skip interference compared with AM? Why?

Would picket-fencing become a problem with FM on 11 meters?

 

[mmckenna]

Would an FM 11 meter CB band be less prone to skip interference compared with AM? Why?

No, not really. FM used by California Highway Patrol on the VHF low band still skips along pretty well, being heard all over the USA when conditions are right.

Would picket-fencing become a problem with FM on 11 meters?

That's more an issue due to frequency than modulation, so no.

 

[Larry1275]

FM on Cb is is great long over due

 

[Larry1275]

This whole business will fall flat on it's face when CB'ers realize that FM ain't got no "swang" on their S meters.

omg Love it

 

[K6GBW]

It's sad that it took so long for this to happen. I think the only reason it's happening now is that Cobra, President et al, are loosing their shorts to Midland since they came out with their line of GMRS radios. Those are just being eaten up by the off road crowd and who can blame them. Good audio and small antennas. The whole package is easy to deal with. But, CB frequencies can still be very useful. It will be interesting to see what happens though. I doubt the trucking industry will embrace CB again. For one most companies don't even allow radios in the trucks anymore and the new drivers are cellphone junkies. The new FM CB's might be really cool for small rural communities. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[rescuecomm]

Exactly! The user base has largely shifted from auto/truck highway traffic reporting in the 1970s and 1980s. It's a good question whether the CERT or off-road community will embrace FM CB. The CB FM mobile radios might be less expensive but the FM CB handheld may be twice as much as an equivalent FRS.

 

[WPXS472]

I was into CB back in what I call the glory days. Mid to late 60's. Back then, you could reliably get 30 miles range, and even more wasn't uncommon. All this without linears. When the sunspot cycle brought the skip, I bailed out and never looked back. I have thought about picking up a couple of units, but then I already have GMRS radios that are never used. I think there could be some really neat use cases for CB today, and allowing FM seems a natural to me.

 

[Duckford]

Exactly! The user base has largely shifted from auto/truck highway traffic reporting in the 1970s and 1980s. It's a good question whether the CERT or off-road community will embrace FM CB. The CB FM mobile radios might be less expensive but the FM CB handheld may be twice as much as an equivalent FRS.

There is the unspoken big issue of FRS and GMRS, the fact that it is the illegal part that is making them very popular. The big explosion in interest isn't just overlanders who don't want to run 102" whips on their Jeeps, it is those damned $20 Baofang radios flooding the market.

People get their UV-5R's and then wonder which frequencies they can use, be it air softers, overlanders, preppers, kids, people who want a radio as society beings to fail. They hear about Ham, and they don't want a ticket, so they hear that tons of kids and airsofters and other folks have been using their UV-5R's illegally on FRS and even GMRS without a license, and getting away with it. Next thing you know, people are tempted, and use their $20 wonder HT on FRS with non type accepted equipment, also don't get into trouble, and the precedent continues to grow.

Wither or not folks are going to splurge on a GMRS base/mobile unit, and a big boi antenna and pay for the GMRS license is a topic onto itself. How many people who are going to use FRS and GMRS seriously and follow the rules is a topic of discussion. BUT, the concept of why GMRS and FRS are gaining popularity, even though these old services aren't new by any standard, isn't just a miraculous revelation of shorter antennas and higher power.

You want to talk HT for the non Ham services? My nice little Uniden 401HH and Cobra 50 HT's, or the nice new little President Randy aren't competing with ANY of the GMRS or FRS HT's... they are competing with those UV-5R's.

You really want to get honest? The Cobra 29LTD isn't competing with any GMRS high power mobiles. Hell, a new Cobra 148 with SSB and FM (if they bring back this classic with upgrades, as some hope) would not be so much competing with GMRS high power mobiles; they would, too, be competing with those damned $20 UV-5R's.

 

[AK9R]

Please discuss the GMRS aspects of this proposal in this thread: Reconsideration of FCC R&O on petition to allow automatic location and data transmission over GMRS

 

[AK9R]

The CB FM mobile radios might be less expensive...

There is some speculation that the FCC may require that the FM-capable CBs be dual mode: both AM and FM. I don't think that will reduce the cost.

 

[SteveSimpkin]

There is some speculation that the FCC may require that the FM-capable CBs be dual mode: both AM and FM. I don't think that will reduce the cost.

Requiring *all* CBs to have AM mode makes sense. An option to have an FM mode should just be like the option to have a SSB mode. It still must have AM mode to guarantee a compatible mode with all other CBs.

 

[alcahuete]

I don't think anything is going to bring CB back into popularity. FM will be a new toy for the hobbyists, but that's about it. Nobody wants huge antennas on their cars. Nobody wants to install radios in their cars, period. Will FM sound better? Sure! But so will any of the other FM radios from other services that are far cheaper and use smaller antennas. You're still going to get skip on FM, just like you do with the 10m FM repeaters. Back in the last couple cycles, I hit 10m repeaters all around the world, from Southern California.

 

[AB5ID]

This whole business will fall flat on it's face when CB'ers realize that FM ain't got no "swang" on their S meters.

Irony is if they over deviate the passband their signal will just drop out. 2khz is tight!

 

[jhooten]

Nobody wants huge antennas on their cars.

What is the difference in visual signature between a NMO-27 and a NMO-150 used for a MURS radio or high gain UHF GMRS antenna? It is only when using a full quarter wave a CB antenna becomes huge.

 

[alcahuete]

What is the difference in visual signature between a NMO-27 and a NMO-150 used for a MURS radio or high gain UHF GMRS antenna? It is only when using a full quarter wave a CB antenna becomes huge.

It's not just CB. I'm referring to every radio service. Nobody puts antennas on their cars anymore except for hobbyists. This rule is not going to change that. This is not going to get anybody back into CB, because, wow, there's FM now! Not happening.

 

[jhooten]

It's not just CB. I'm referring to every radio service. Nobody puts antennas on their cars anymore except for hobbyists. This rule is not going to change that. This is not going to get anybody back into CB, because, wow, there's FM now! Not happening.

The black soup cans on a stick are rapidly gaining in popularity out here in the sticks.

 

[mmckenna]

The black soup cans on a stick are rapidly gaining in popularity out here in the sticks.

Yep. It reinforces my theory that to the average consumer, the uglier the antenna is, the better it must work.

 

[RaleighGuy]

FCC Rule changes granted today, including FM on CB spectrum, stating, "Specifically, we amend Section 95.971(a) of the Commission’s rules to permit CB Radio Service transmitters to transmit FM voice emissions along with AM. We note that AM and FM operations are permitted in other Part 95 services under similar technical parameters, so we generally apply the technical rules to FM signals as currently apply to AM signals for the CB Radio Service. This approach is the same as that taken in other Part 95 services. In the case of peak frequency deviation, however, we adopt a limit of ±2 kHz..."

Also, FCC amended the rules to permit automatic or periodic location and data transmissions for both GMRS and FRS.

Changes SHALL BE EFFECTIVE 30 days after publication in the Federal Register.

 

[665_NJ]

Now it will be interesting to see how and how many of those the CB hobbyist pull out those imported 10M(CBs) (Galaxy etc..) with FM and run with it now that FM has been approved. +/- 2.5KHz yea right for the future new radios. Not the current ones out there....???